"Remember that guy you hooked me up with?"
?????
"Just trying to set some people straight."
Is anybody else confused by this post above?
Better Records White Hot Stampers: Now the Story Can Be Told!
Just got shipping notification, so now the story can be told!
Better-Records.com is a small, incredibly valuable yet little known company run out of Thousand Oaks, CA by Tom Port. The business started out many years ago when Tom Port noticed no two records sound quite the same. Evidently Tom is a sound quality fanatic on a scale maybe even higher than mine, and he started getting together with some of his audio buds doing shoot-outs in a friendly competition to see who has the best sounding copy.
Over time this evolved into Better-Records.com, where the best of the best of these shoot-outs can be bought by regular guys like me who live for the sound, but just don't have the time or the drive to go through all the work of finding these rare gems.
The difference in quality between your average pressing and a White Hot Stamper is truly incredible. If you don't have the system or the ears of course you may never notice. If you do though then nothing else comes even close.
Tom will say things like only one in twenty copies is Hot Stamper worthy. This doesn't even come close to conveying the magnitude. Last night for example, wife and I were listening to our White Hot Stamper of Tchaikovsky 1812. Then we played another White Hot Tchaikovsky. Then we played the Tchaikovsky tracks from my copy of Clair deLune.
Without hearing a White Hot you would think Clair de Lune is about as good as it gets. After two sides of Tom's wonders it was flat, dull, mid-fi. Not even in the same ball park. And yet this is quite honestly a very good record. How many of these he has to clean, play, and compare to find the rare few magical sounding copies, I don't even know!
Copies of Hot Stamper quality being so hard to find means of course they are not always available. This is not like going to the record store. There are not 50 copies of Year of the Cat just sitting around. Most of the time there are no copies at all. When there are, they get snapped up fast. Especially the popular titles. Fleetwood Mac Rumours, Tom Petty Southern Accents, whole bunch of em like this get sold pretty fast even in spite of the astronomically outrageous prices they command. Then again, since people pay - and fast - maybe not so outrageous after all.
So I spent months looking, hoping for Year of the Cat to show up. When it did, YES! Click on it and.... Sorry, this copy is SOLD! What the...? It was only up a day! If that!
Well now this puts me in a bit of a spot. Because, see, besides loving music and being obsessed with sound quality, I'm also enthusiastic about sharing this with others. With most things, no problem. Eric makes an endless supply of Tekton Moabs. Talking up Tekton or Townshend or whatever has no effect on my ability to get mine. With Better-records.com however the supply is so limited the last thing I need is more competition. Bit of a bind.
Even so, can't keep my big mouth shut. Been telling everyone how great these are. One day someone buys one based on my recommendation, Tom finds out, next thing you know I'm a Good Customer. What does that mean? Well is there anything you're looking for? Year of the Cat. That's a hard one. Tell me about it. Might take a while. Take all the time you need. Just get me one. Please. Okay.
That was months ago. Other day, hey we're doing a shoot-out. No guarantees but should be able to find you one. So for the last few days I was all Are we there yet? Are we there yet? And now finally, like I said, shipped!
So now I have my Grail, and the story can be told. Got a nice little collection of Hot Stampers, and will be adding more, but this for me is The One. Might not be for you, but that is the beauty of it all. Many of us have that one special record we love. If you do too, and you want to hear it like listening to the master tape, this is the way to go.
Better-Records.com is a small, incredibly valuable yet little known company run out of Thousand Oaks, CA by Tom Port. The business started out many years ago when Tom Port noticed no two records sound quite the same. Evidently Tom is a sound quality fanatic on a scale maybe even higher than mine, and he started getting together with some of his audio buds doing shoot-outs in a friendly competition to see who has the best sounding copy.
Over time this evolved into Better-Records.com, where the best of the best of these shoot-outs can be bought by regular guys like me who live for the sound, but just don't have the time or the drive to go through all the work of finding these rare gems.
The difference in quality between your average pressing and a White Hot Stamper is truly incredible. If you don't have the system or the ears of course you may never notice. If you do though then nothing else comes even close.
Tom will say things like only one in twenty copies is Hot Stamper worthy. This doesn't even come close to conveying the magnitude. Last night for example, wife and I were listening to our White Hot Stamper of Tchaikovsky 1812. Then we played another White Hot Tchaikovsky. Then we played the Tchaikovsky tracks from my copy of Clair deLune.
Without hearing a White Hot you would think Clair de Lune is about as good as it gets. After two sides of Tom's wonders it was flat, dull, mid-fi. Not even in the same ball park. And yet this is quite honestly a very good record. How many of these he has to clean, play, and compare to find the rare few magical sounding copies, I don't even know!
Copies of Hot Stamper quality being so hard to find means of course they are not always available. This is not like going to the record store. There are not 50 copies of Year of the Cat just sitting around. Most of the time there are no copies at all. When there are, they get snapped up fast. Especially the popular titles. Fleetwood Mac Rumours, Tom Petty Southern Accents, whole bunch of em like this get sold pretty fast even in spite of the astronomically outrageous prices they command. Then again, since people pay - and fast - maybe not so outrageous after all.
So I spent months looking, hoping for Year of the Cat to show up. When it did, YES! Click on it and.... Sorry, this copy is SOLD! What the...? It was only up a day! If that!
Well now this puts me in a bit of a spot. Because, see, besides loving music and being obsessed with sound quality, I'm also enthusiastic about sharing this with others. With most things, no problem. Eric makes an endless supply of Tekton Moabs. Talking up Tekton or Townshend or whatever has no effect on my ability to get mine. With Better-records.com however the supply is so limited the last thing I need is more competition. Bit of a bind.
Even so, can't keep my big mouth shut. Been telling everyone how great these are. One day someone buys one based on my recommendation, Tom finds out, next thing you know I'm a Good Customer. What does that mean? Well is there anything you're looking for? Year of the Cat. That's a hard one. Tell me about it. Might take a while. Take all the time you need. Just get me one. Please. Okay.
That was months ago. Other day, hey we're doing a shoot-out. No guarantees but should be able to find you one. So for the last few days I was all Are we there yet? Are we there yet? And now finally, like I said, shipped!
So now I have my Grail, and the story can be told. Got a nice little collection of Hot Stampers, and will be adding more, but this for me is The One. Might not be for you, but that is the beauty of it all. Many of us have that one special record we love. If you do too, and you want to hear it like listening to the master tape, this is the way to go.
Showing 49 responses by glupson
Does Better Records source their candidates from different geographical areas, or it is only/mostly U.S.A. oriented? I have records from a number of different countries and I, and not only I, overall found German-made ones (regardless of if bought in Germany vs. Austria) better than their Italian counterparts. So I still look for German ones. I did buy a few of the same records from the same era, but made in U.S.A. and I, again very subjectively, found them to be inferior to German "stampers". Maybe some International Tom could elaborate on my observations. Maybe a regular German pressing is equivalent to U.S.A. White Hot Stamper? In which case, I just wasted money. Well, we will hear... |
"...so are as a matter of fact blathering pure ad copy and amply embellished imaginings." Isn’t that what the premise of this thread, its original post, is all about? "That is the whole point of the thread." I have a feeling that those discussing, rather than religiously promoting, circumstances around Better Records records are trying... "To let people know and make them aware the ad copy is just that: ad copy!" "Of course I have never heard one and so have no idea what I am talking about BUT.." and then continue on with your uninformed opinion piece. Wrong thread. That must have been meant for the OP of Tekton Moab thread. |
Look, when the entire human race was sending the first Voyager spacecraft.........and we wanted to communicate, how did we do it? Put a record on it. Because Carl Sagan knew it would not degrade, and anyone anywhere could play it. Cool as cool can be. It would have been quite unexpected to put FLAC files on it in 1977. Or a CD, for that matter. "Carl Sagan knew it would not degrade, and anyone anywhere could play it." Carl Sagan must have been hopeful that Martians’ would adjust VTA properly. Even if all of that were true, it seems that Carl Sagan did not believe in non-degradable record technology Mike Lavigne, millercarbon, me, or anyone else, have at home... "The record is constructed of gold-plated copper and is 12 inches (30 cm) in diameter. The record’s cover is aluminum and electroplated upon it is an ultra-pure sample of the isotope uranium-238. Uranium-238 has a half-life of 4.468 billion years." Voyager - Making of the Golden Record (nasa.gov) There are some instructions on the cover, and it does seem that the turntable is included... Voyager - The Golden Record Cover (nasa.gov) "Each record is encased in a protective aluminum jacket, together with a cartridge and a needle. Instructions, in symbolic language, explain the origin of the spacecraft and indicate how the record is to be played. The 115 images are encoded in analog form." "The remainder of the record is in audio, designed to be played at 16-2/3 revolutions per minute." |
bluemoodriver, "This is a great business model." Seems like it. From the buyer's perspective, though, it is a one-stop deal. No need to waste time and effort. Marketing approach is another interesting piece of the puzzle. To start, you gain perceived legitimity by having your own website as opposed to Discogs or eBay. Sell expensive ones on your website and the rest on Discogs, or wherever else. Nothing wrong with that. It does not seem there is a bad record sold on better-records.com. Where do losers from shoot-outs go? |
Someone came back and posted that they bought one based on my review............ Tom saw that and said, "Anything I can do for you?" So I said, can you find me..... Feel free to remind him that someone (me, in this case) ordered a record just because the person read your advertisement/thread. Maybe you can get another record of your choice. |
"... there is no way that I could convince myself to pay $300 -$500 for a record, no matter how good it sounds." It is a bit steep, but if the record is what you really like, well, you only live once. I once wanted a Procol Harum record in mint condition together with a limited bonus single. I bought it without actually looking at the price. I think it was about $200-300. It ended up being new, still sealed, and it got digitized at its second spin and it has not been touched since then. After fifteenish years of intermittently wanting it and realizing that the bonus single was limited to 1000 copies, any price would have been diluted. It was an interesting read, indeed, so who wouldn't have gotten interested? Listening #9 | Stereophile.com |
skypunk, Check with people on the street, ask how many are buying records. Even in "audophile" world records are probably not as strong as streaming and other digital formats. I did check your (sort of) reliable marketing analytics reference and I do have to agree with it. Try with the second paragraph. "Most of us are streaming our music instead of buying it outright." Record Roundup Volume 6: Vinyl Outsells CDs For The First Time Since The 1980s (forbes.com) |
skypunk, "Carbon discs are CD,s you know in that horrible digital domain." Not to go into bigger discussion, but you may want to brush up on chemistry as it applies to the manufacturing process of carbon discs (records). Pay special attention to molecular structure of polyvinyl chloride. Only the facts Mam. |
skypunk. "Many (most) people are not buying vinyl anymore. They are digitizing collections . I am just guessing, but that guess would be that vinyl records are a subtype of carbon discs. Check with people on the street, ask how many are buying records. Even in "audophile" world records are probably not as strong as streaming and other digital formats. |
Back to sound quality of Better Records records. Could it be that superiority of Better Records compared to what one already owns is due to the comparison difficulties? From what I understand, Better Records records are virtually new. Barely played, if at all. How many will compare such a record at home with an unplayed record from a different retailer source? Could it be that Better Records records really do sound significantly better than what one is used to at home due to, in part at least, that record at home being old and physically damaged to some extent over the years? |
"Don't know. Not like I keep a list or anything. Going from memory..." That is about twenty. At a going rate of $350 a record (not adjusting for double albums) it is around $7000. Which is respectable sum for a few fews of records. In fact, it is almost as much as stock Tekton Moabs and Raven Blackhawk together. So, surprise, millercarbon is an audiophile music lover after all. He does put more into records than into his equipment. Hats off. |
"Of course I would keep her around for the company- and thanks a lot for that! But I would listen to the record."And this would be the record... Warnes, Jennifer - Famous Blue Raincoat - White Hot Stamper (Quiet Vin – Better Records (better-records.com) Credit card out and the post becomes a reality. "You’ll have a living, breathing Jennifer Warnes singing her heart out right between your speakers." Still, Better-records’ description may be slightly misleading... "What the Best Sides of Famous Blue Raincoat Have to Offer Is Not Hard to Hear...
millercarbon, if you do not already have it, try this one, actually these three, they are quite good... Jennifer Warnes - Famous Blue Raincoat (The Songs Of Leonard Cohen): 3xLP, Ltd, Num, RE, RM For Sale | Discogs |
"On side two, a group of marks make 20 moderate to light pops on Track 1" This is probably what "with issues" designation means on "mint minus minus" record. Understanding that these records are hard to find as it is, how many are not bothered by knowing the record will come with pops? The one I referred to is $99.99 and may be forgiven by most. At the same time, $649.99 will buy you...
It has been a long time since whenever it was made so some blemishes are understandable, another copy is not just around the corner so this may be as good as it gets. $40 per pop and tick, though. |
"Or Nilsson Schmilsson, Coconut, holy crap!"Coconut, Better Version, in digital... The Muppet Show: Put the Lime in the Coconut - YouTube |
"Digitizing vinyl? Ugh...it defeats the whole purpose of buying vinyl." Many (most) people are not buying vinyl anymore. They are digitizing collections that they already have, often only records that are not commercially available in digital format. They want them digitized for all of the conveniences that mapman has mentioned. It is nice to have your whole collection of music on one little SD card in the car. If you listen to the music in the car, that is. Take it all with you on the plane, while jogging, leave a copy at work. And sound difference is much less than one would be led to believe. |
"I play records only once these days.......to convert to digital for future playback while I listen." I used to do that and then I read somewhere, probably on Audiogon, that I should play it two times. First pass to remove whatever minuscle debris is left from stamping, then clean the stylus, and only then play the record for posterity. Not that I can hear the difference, but it makes me feel knowledgeable. Finally. |
I found what better-records.com has to say about demagnetizing. "It's critically important to demagnetize your speakers and cables at least ten minutes before listening." What is that all about? Aren't speakers supposed to function on magnetism, some of them at least? What material are those cables made of? How does their magnetism work? |
Unfortunate thing with this kind of approach is that it means nothing to anybody except to the one doing it. There was a thread Talk but not walk some time ago. It was a place to say and claim anything. From Kim Jong Un to geometry of wings on the plane to amplifiers and to anything else you could imagine. Michael Green claimed that amplifiers sound significantly better without the cover. The premise was that people only talk, but never try so whatever they say is worthless. I pulled an older NAD C-350 out of the box and took the cover off. Nothing. It was all the same. I did it for a while, but nothing changed. I reported that result and got blasted for doing it. Apparently, doing it was not enough. It just showed how I did not know what I was doing despite me taking the cover off as mentioned in the thread. All of a sudden, taking the cover off was called "barely scratching the surface". I was to cut some plastic ties inside the amplifier so orchestra will spread on the stage and similar claims. I did not do it, my room could barely fit that orchestra in their snugly positions, as destroying a perfectly functioning amplifier just to potentially read it was not enough did not appeal to me. There could have been more and more that would be needed to prove how taking the cover off an amplifier improves the sound. In short, by doing the experiment and reporting results, I was told my findings were worthless. Granted, it was not a single, much less double, blind study but if the only way to discern the difference was to spend hours under sterile condition it was not worth the effort. That is when I realized who talks and who walks. Don’t even start me on piano keys and pressure in the room. |
Going back in order: jetter, I thought of Tekton and Raven, but realized that my approach may be better. With Tekton and Raven, everything would sound like White Hot Stamper, if not even better. It would defeat the purpose of the test. bluemoodriver, It will not be double blind test although it may be dimmed lights test. Just too lazy to take it to some lab level and my friend is sane enough for me to expect him to refuse to get up and change multiple records more than once every 20 minutes. Maybe we could try to teach the dog how to do it, but that dog is not the brightest one out there so no double blind study. I believe it will be applicable result anyways. The point of listening to White Hot Stamper, or anything else, is to actually listen to it in real life, not under the test conditions. So, I think, it would be fine if some bias makes it sound better. The end result is still "better" and is what might be expected under the regular conditions. Not that I can claim to be free of bias, but in this I am as unbiased as one can get. And as experienced with that particular album as anyone could be. I am doing it for curiosity, not to steer me into buying or not buying White Hot Stampers in the future. Of course, it is not excluded, but I barely ever listen to records. If White Hot Stamper is really that great, it may be worth paying someone to find it for you. As long as your hourly income is higher than of that person finding it for you. Time is money they say. Even then, one has to decide where the cutoff for "too expensive" is. thecarpathian, In my hopeful experiment, that is why we will have three different records to compare with White Hot Stamper. They may all be clunkers, or they may all be great, pressed on different continents and possibly in different years. That would shed the light on the technology itself and how much should be reasonably expected from the format. If the only way someone will be satisfied with the sound of a record is by buying White Hot Stampers at $100-600 a pop (and click), we are approaching rarity of offerings and price of reel-to-reel indulgence. I could see a person buying a few favorite records like that for birthday. |
"Very thorough." I omitted details about the rest of the system(s) as it should have no impact on record making circles. The plan is to do that comparison with a friend of mine (he is the owner of Pioneer and Ortofon 2M Red) at his place. millercarbon is invited, if he can get to the Mid-Atlantic area by mid-week. Of course, if Carol manages to deliver the record by Tuesday. In fact, anyone in good spirit can join. Space is limited and there is Coton de Tulear always fighting for the sweet spot. EDIT: Oooops, I forgot about Coronavirus. Well, not to be the one to walk away from invitation, we can figure something out. Some measures. |
"I can't pass up a terrific name like Zoot Sims!" This is when I first heard Zoot play that little beauty... The Muppet Show - Sax and Violence - YouTube |
"Do you know the specifics of the turntable you are going to demo the album on? It may depend on Carol’s interaction (I can learn, you see) with millercarbon and when the record will arrive. It should be Pioneer PLX-1000 with Ortofon 2M Red, Soundsmith Otello, Ortofon Concorde as old as the record, and Technics EPC 207 cartridges. It may also be Technics SL-Q2 turntable with all of those but Ortofon 2M Red. Now, when I think of it, I can recreate the time the record came out. Turntable, cartridge, and the recorded material can all be the same age. The way artists could have listened to it. Records to compare White Hot Stamper with will be three of the identical title. One is German "period pressing" (meaning "from the time it came out first") in visually near mint condition, one is, I am almost certain, U.S.A. pressing from unknown era, and the third one I will check when I get there. It is likely a U.S.A. copy. My interest/goal is to compare White Hot Stamper with regular copies and not to find how good it is on the level of the Universe. That is what I understand to be the benefit of the White Hot Stamper. The best you can get out of the bunch. For that, I should not need a million-dollar system as all copies will be played on exactly the same equipment. Sure, on something more sophisticated, they will sound better, but the difference should still be about the same. |
tuzarupa, "Perhaps the other residents of our universe would use a light beam to decode it?" If you dig through those links I have provided earlier in the thread, records actually came with a stylus to play them with. I think it said the stylus was inside the spacecraft while the record was on the outside. There is a picture of instructions provided with the record so Martians know how to use it. One problem with most modern turntables could be that the record is at 16 2/3 rpm and most turntables are 33 and 45. |
millercarbon, "When they want to know something they ask me directly. Seriously, can you tell us one area of strength where you can give high quality information without some political excrement or insults to others? While virtue signaling. Is there anything you have to say other than, "Look at me! Look what a great person I am"? |
"Not unless it comes with Norah Jones sitting and listening to it with me. I would pay $600 for that." FAQs About Booking Norah Jones | AAE Music Hire Norah Jones for a Corporate Event or Performance Booking. (celebritytalent.net) |
tuzarupa, "...on a piece of vinyl that will eventually decay..." A little earlier in the thread, there was a statement that records do not decay (or some other wording of that statement). Allegedly, I mean according to millercarbon, that was the reason for the record being sent into the space in 1977. I linked to some NASA webpages about that and I found them interesting. It was the record. It was not the record you have at home. I do have to thank millercarbon for leading me to check the details about the space record and making me learn something new. Now, if I could only make him learn... ...anything. |
"...but perhaps Tom or Carol from Better-Records.com can."Carol is from UPS. I hoped that millercarbon would talk to her about earlier delivery of my record. A few nice words, as usual, maybe a long walk on the beach in the sunset, and, inevitably, an Audiogon post that starts with...I talked to Carol... Carol Tomé - Wikipedia |
millercarbon, This was too weak, even from you. Now, when thecarpathian reminded me, how is my record coming along? Are we still in for Tuesday before 8pm? Could you push it to Tuesday morning? I was hoping to take it to my friend to listen to it there (and have two judges). Of course, we would compare it to his mundane copy. So, if you could call Carol and pull some strings, I would appreciate it. Otherwise I have to waste beautiful weather on Wednesday on driving. |