Best preamp is no preamp: always true?

Dovetail asked Bigkidz (in this thread, I think) what the discussion with First Sound entailed about volume pots or attenuators, etc.

While I have no way of knowing what Bigkidz and Emmanuel Go (First Sound) might have spoken about, the First Sound website says their stepped attenuators are made with Holco or Vishay resistors. I believe the upper models have the Vishays.

I have tried a passive pre-amp (First Sound, before they went to the active design) and have heard many systems with and without pre-amps. My system sounds better with the First Sound Active pre-amp than with the passive (or without a pre-amp at all). Several folks I know have tried the same experiment; they all prefer their systems with a good active pre-amp. Doesn't mean that no pre' can't be done well; I just haven't heard it.

Marakanetz, you make a good point. I guess it would be possible to have a high out put CD player with decent volume control of some kind and maybe a power amp with a good input section to combine to take the place of a pre-amp.

Someone else on this thread pointed out (I think), though, that the likelihood that the volume controls on most variable out CDP's will compete with the attenuators on good pre-amps is somewhat low---all other things being equal.

There is also the issue of impedance matching. Are there enough variable out CDP's that also have both sufficient gain and low impedance to "drive" an appropriately equipped (sufficient input stage) power amp properly? I don't know. Maybe this has been covered elsewhere in this thread. Sorry for the redundancy, if so.

Grannyring, Thanks for the corroboration. We just haven't heard a pre'-less setup done right, I suppose.

Add to the list of integrated amps with a passive input the Ayre AX-7e.

I have not heard any of these (passive input) integrateds. I would like to, though. Their power amp sections were designed specifically to be run with a passive pre' section (I presume) and so would most likely do just fine---more than fine---in this configuration, especially with a high output, low impedance CDP or DAC.

Could these integrateds be tested with and w/o an active pre-amp by turning the volume all the way up on the Int amp and use it with an active pre'? And then take the pre' out and use the volume control on the int amp as usual? Has anybody tried this with such an integrated amp?

Does the Berning 270 amp have a passive input section?