best phono preamps?


I heard the Jadis JP 80 MC and I was very impressed especially by the phono part. I have seen that Jadis builds a "only phono preamp" the DPMC. Any experience wih it?
which other phono preamp do you recommand?

my system:
Kuzma Stabi (looking also for new diamond)
Jeff Rowland Capri + monoblocs 501
Infinity Renaissance 90
clavil

Showing 7 responses by rauliruegas

Dear Dan: I agree totally with Ralph about.

Please think on this for a moment, everything the same what do you prefer NO better yet what tell you your wide common sense?: that a stand alone line preamp and stand alone phoo stage connected each other through a cable could/can even the quality performance of an integrated unit ( Phonolinepreamp ) that does not needs that additional cable/veils/distortions?

and this is " everything the same " imagine when the line preamp and the phono stage comes from different manufacturar where the impedances between the units are unmatched, where you have two different " signature " sound, where you have two different quality unit performances, where..., where,....etc, etc.

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.
Dear Dan: Maybe you don't read it, I posted " everything the same " on my example.

Anyway think only in that additional cable you need on separates ( everything the same ) gear that means additional " stages/veils/distortions/noises/colorations " where the cartridge signal must pass : small wire soldered between the female output phono stage to the phono stage board: three " stages/veils " here: the solder it self on circuit board, the wire interconnect and the solder at RCA female connector, then the female connector, then the male connector and the solder it self on the IC cable.
At the other end of the IC cable ( line stage input ) the additional " stages/veils/distortions/noises/colorations " are the same number: 6+6=12 !!! plus one meter of IC cable with all the IC cable self signal degradations.

Dan, IMHO the subject here is not: """" the fewer absolutes I accept. """" but common sense, easy.

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.
Dear Downunder: ++++ " There is more degredation in the musical signal before it gets onto vinyl " +++++

maybe but you can't do nothing about.

Certainly your music sound priorities are different from mine that between other things is to preserve ( in the best way ) the integrity of the delicate cartridge signal trying ( between other things ) to lower distotions/colorations/noises through adding the less and loosing the less on that be loved cartridge signal.

The other subject could be that you does not have yet an in deep experience with a real first rate Phonolinepreamp and of course that your ears like you posted can't discern between an external phono stage and an integrate one, well it could be many things to be sure.

Anyway, what is ridicolous for you maybe it is not to other people like me but if that is not enough then read what Atmasphere posted about and my other posts, please read carefully.

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.
Dear Jloveys: Our unit was designed for my( our ) own priorities ( like a music lover/audiophile ) and was designed not thinking to put on the market, this commercial subject occur by " accident " a welcome one but not our main priority including today.

Over my audio years I owned several audio items and I can remember those Zenith and Telefunken " consoles " that were all purpose items that comes with everything you need to sound reproduction: TT/tonearm/cartridge/Phonolinepreamp/amplifier/tunner, everything integrated in the same " body ".

After that I remember: Pionner, Sansui, Mackintosh, Luxman, etc, where these units were integrated Phonolinepreamps ( at least ), on those years there was not " separates ".

Time goes on and appear the separate units for different reasons where maybe the most important was a commercial one: charge a price for two units instead only one.
In those times the know-how between the customers and even between the manufacturers was really low aganist today overall know-how.

At the beguining the cartridges that I use it were MM type but later appear/discover the MC alternative and things change because some of the integrated units can't handle the MC ones and appear the step-up transformers ( that I use it for several years till my know-how improve to tell me that the SUT makes a heavy degradation to the cartridge signal. ) that till today IMHO are still making damage to the quality analog performance alternative.

So, for years I was looking for an active ( no step up: internal or external. ) and integrated ( cables and connectors from my point of view are one of he worst enemy against quality performance, unfortunately we can't live with out it. )
Phonolinepreamp, then I find a good unit ( for that time ) that can handle two cartridges ( MM/MC ) the Classe DR-7 ( that over the time I modified to improve its quality performance. ).

Ater this Classe I try/test sevreal integrated and not phono/line stages: FM Acoustic, Threshold, Audio research, Conrad Johnson, Gryphon, Audio Note, Levinson, Krell, Jadis, you name it.

No one meet my " music lover " priorities so we decided ( Josè and I ) that if we really want to achieve our targets we have to go for our own design ( this was more than 12 years ago ) and we did it and build our first unit ( battery power supply ) only to show if can " sounds " in a decent way , well what we heard was not a very decent performance but at least not sounded too bad, so we were exited for our " success " , btw it is really a emotional event when you design for the first time an audio item build it then test it and voila it " sounds "!!!

After this " lucky " event we put on paper our targets choosing the best trade-offs to obtain in the best way the top quality performance that we were looking for for too many years .

To write the targets was an in deeep research to understand not only the main functions ( why a Phonolinepreamp exist. ) that a Phonolipreamp must to have but to understand too the main challenges to design, test and execution of that design.

The result is the Essential 3160 Phonolinepreamp ( integrated, no step up, separate power supplys, separate dual mono line stage and separate dual mono phono stages in two stand alone chasis/boxes. ).

This was and is our approach any trade-off here is something that we accept and choose in favor of quality performance, of course that from a different point of view like be Jcarr it self the approach could be different and cetainly the performance can/could be different too.

Jloveys, don't be disapointed because I can tell you that almost any designer choose the trade-offs that for him are the best ones: sometimes by commercial subjects.

You can read here that like Atmasphere we choose almost the same alternative that is: an integrate Phonolinepreamp.

Every designer has its own ideas ( like Manley or Lamm that choose step-up transformers and stand alone units. ) and I can asure you that everyone can explain you in deep its approach advantages and disadvantages.

So, which is the best approach? ( everything the same ), a question that has several answers as several designers exist and certainly this is not the right forum to speak in deep about, what I can say to you is that in general all those designers has more in common about that differences. As Dan point out: there are no absolutes here! and that's why many of us ( designers or not ) follow looking for the " heaven " about.

The real reward about is that the customer has several very good alternatives and I think that the very best it is for coming!

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.
Dear Downunder: I don't know what you are talking about or at least I can't understand it, sorry.

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.
Dear Downunder: +++++ " This suits his argument and self advertising for phono stage and line stage to be together. " +++++

I think that you read my posts but you don't understand it ( I have to say that this is not the first time ) or you don't want it: " everything the same ", this means that IMHO and due to my priorities if I have a stand alone state of the art phono stage and a stand alone state of the art line stage against a state of the art integrate unit then I prefer the Phonolinepreamp integrated unit that does not needs any additional " ridicolous " cable and connectors.

I'm not pushing any thing this is my opinion. If you prefer the stand alone units its fine for me.

I respect what Jcarr posted but " everything the same " I don't agree with him about separates against an integrate unit, like I told you my preference ( absolute preference here, now and today ) is for an integrate unit, with out any single commercial issue here, read again: the Essential was designed for us not thinking on you to make money.

You can absorb it, then make your own minds up.

+++++ " self advertising " +++++, I don't need it because I'm not on the audio commercial business, the Phonolinepreamp subject form part of my today priorities.

+++++ "On the other hand Raul luvs tonearms with removable headshells. Now how many stages/veils/distortions etc do these have compared to non removable??. " +++++

as I always posted almost always we have to choose our trade-offs and that's why I choose to go for removable headshell tonearm designs and I can tell you that in our self tonearm design with removable headshell there is no single " veil/stages/distortions " due to that removable headshell subject.

Again, " You can absorb it, then make your own minds up. "

Downunder, I would like to know what are you doing in this thread when you answer or refer to me or my posts: looking/waiting how to go against/attack what I'm saying or you really want to share your opinions with an open mind and trying to learn/understand, could you explain about?

+++++ " You and Audiofeil should get married. " +++++

If you don't want that in a near future I go an insult you with out any respect please that this be the last time that you insult not only me but to the other person and if I don't like you that's is your problem and my advise is that you try not to read my posts, why should you?

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.