Best Match for Dynaudio Contour S3.4?

UPDATE: So... after receiving my Peachtree Nova back from service two weeks ago, I am happy to report the following;

1) On the advice of Johnny Rutan and Wally from Underwoord Hifi, I attached a cheater plug on the end of the power cord of the ARC 100.2 in an effort to squash the annoying buzz/hum that has been plaguing my system since the amp's arrival. And....SUCCESS!! Dead nuts quiet. Cost: $5.99 from Radio Shack.

2) I purchased a pair of higher quality interconnects from Paul and Judy Speltz at AntiCables with the Eichmann bullet plugs (all copper), and boy what a difference. But still, my system was still hovering in the "average" zone, albeit the high end of that zone. Cost: $150

3) Finally, I purchased a French-made Phillips 6922 tube from Brent Jesse per Brent's recommendation to replace the stock tube in the Nova, and - I TRULY can't believe this -... I don't know how else to say this.... but HOLY F--KING SH-T!!! Suddenly, the bottom end and mid-bottom range opened up, deepened, sharpened - I could hear the subleties of every note coming from every bass instrument on every recording I played, The soundstage expanded to fill the room, the dynamics were explosive, the texture of strings, harmonies and voices floated through the air and resolved naturally into space. It felt at times like the entire band was playing in my room, and at other times, like just a single performer was singing or playing from like seven feet away, five feet off the ground and maybe three feet left of center. It was eerie! It was AWESOME!! Thank you Brent!!! (Of course I am neither affiliated with or related to Mr. Jesse in any way, haha!!) Total cost: $110.

I would say to every Nova or Decoo2 owner out there, (so much for pleasantries) you are an IDIOT if you don't swap out the tube in the Nova with this one! For an extra $100 it is like I now have a high end tube preamp that is allowing the rest of my system to shine through. For the time being, it appears my worries and frustrations are over. Thank the Lord - and thank ALL of you for your kind, thoughtful and helpful suggestions in my quest for audio nirvana. The Audiogon community ROCKS!!

I now surrender the podium. Happy listening to all, and to all a good night.

So who the hell carries Pass? All I ever see is Reno Hi-Fi and some weird statement on Pass' website about making mistakes. I haven't been there recently but this is what I found a few months ago.

IMO I would wait for the right deal on a X150.5..there is a reason why "It is fairly easy to pick up a used X250"

As usual Grant, you make very good points... Now if you could just find me a used X150.5 I could shut up already and give my fingers (and brain) a rest!

Well Grant, for $2500 shipped I can be the proud owner of an ARC SD135 which is only two years old, and apparently kicks the pants off the 100.2. Or for the same money, I can wait for another X150.5 to come up. Also, Dan from Reno Hifi told me there is very little sonic difference (based on the listening experiences of his customers and himself apparently) between the X150.5 and the X250 (older model 250). It is fairly easy to pick up a used X250, so I wondered what your (or anyone who doesn't have a used X250 to sell me's) thoughts on this might be.

MC, I know your feeling on mods (haha)... but... this amp was just upgraded by John Soderberg, who is a known guy (worked at Threshold for like 15 years and now does upgrades to Threshold amps). So it got a full overhaul - the full "go nuts" treatment - for $1200 less than two years ago. And it will cost me $500 less than an X150.5 - if I can even find one! And it is Class A (not A/B)

But it weighs 100 lbs and needs its own stand (which the seller will throw in at no cost). And I can pick it up semi-locally. And the guy said he'd take it back in a month if I didn't love it... So I am considering it for all of these reasons.

But I feel like I should just shut up already and make a decision. It's just that I am VERY bummed out that the ARC 100.2 did not do the trick for me. That really pisses me off because I thought I was done finally. So I don't want to go through another round of this...

IMO,Too old and not on par with the new X series pass amps

Excellent. I will keep an eye out, MC. Speaking of Pass, there is a Threshold T-400 for sale. Thoughts on this? Reviews are excellent

You shouldnt have to pay more than $2500 for a dead mint one with low hours..I wouldnt spend more than say 2200 and Ive seen them as low as 1800.I would buy from private owner and not a store.Make sure you get the serial number and call Pass in CA and see what service its had and how old it is(remaining warranty),Pass has super great service,as long as the amp is less than 3 years old it is covered under warranty reguardless of how many owners its had or who you bought it from

Thanks Grant. I have spoken with him. Nice guy, good policies, but he wants $1300 more for his used X150.5 than I could have bought one for 2 weeks ago.

Missioncoonery, I have no doubt that the X150.5 would end the present search. I was an idiot and passed up an opportunity to buy a used X150.5 for $2500 because I was away on vacation and not focused on it. And I had been looking for 3-4 months. They do not come up often. Anyway, I found one and was the first person to contact him. But then I stalled, as I thought I might be quite happy with the ARC (based heavily on the experience of someone who was using it with my same speakers) and I would have $900 left in my pocket to either keep, or maybe use to upgrade my preamp. These were my thoughts.

Noel, we are on the same page re the Plinius gear. And thanks for the clarification (from your experience) re the diffs between the 9200, the SA100 and the SA102. Space and heat!

Grant (Tvad) you are correct, it is not easy to audition used gear. Generally you just have to take the plunge. I Will keep you updated on the findings of the electrician, and my thoughts as to how to proceed from there. I did have a huge static shock that ran through the entire system about 4 months ago - the music literally cut out for a second, and I thought I had electrocuted myself. So maybe my wiring/circuits got damaged in the process. I checked my shorts and they were clean, so...close call!

I used the 9200 for some years with a Contour 1.3SE, and then with a C1, until I changed to Rowland.

I can understand the comment that Dyn amps may sound lacking in life with some speakers, but I can tell you for sure that the M8-SA102 sounds livelier, dynamic with more sparkle than a 9200 in exactly the same system.

I don't think you should put the SA100 in the same league as the SA102, they are simply not in the same category sonically. Rack space & heat is a bitch with the Plinius Class A, it was one reason I moved to Rowland rather than step up to the SA103 from the 9200.

Fredorama
For heaven sakes!..Why dont you audition a Pass labs X150.5 and be done with it.Its in your budget, mates extremely well with those speakers,great resale,great service,detail,musical,doesnt run hot,smaller size..comeon get in the game.IMO,it betters the Plinius and miles ahead of the ARC .Ya just wont listen to those who have been there..Your money,your time

Thanks Noel. I am using a Peachtree Nova as my Preamp/DAC. The M8 is better for sure. The main reason I did not get an SA-100 mkIII or and SA-102 was because these amps don't fit in my rack. The second reason was heat. And the third was because some people have said that the SA series was not authoritative enough - or it lacked life - or comments of that nature. So... can you say more about which Dyn speakers you have paired these amps with? I appreciate your comments.

Hey Knownothing, please do not feel bad. You were not the only one who steered me in this direction. The guy I bought the amp from had the same speakers as me, and he loved the combo. Go figure. I initially suspected there was something wrong with the amp and was gonna ship it back to ARC but I think the amp is fine, just not to my liking or not a good match with my other gear.

I would love to hear other AG'ers thoughts on the W4S products. I'm a little pissed I didn't pick up that mint Plinius P-10 that was for sale a week or so ago.

I have used the Plinius-Dyn pair for many years, currently still have a 9200 in a 2nd system. I have heard in many occasions the 9200 vs an M8-SA102 on same system, same music. If you were happy with the 9200, you will be elated with the separates. If your preamp is not too far off compared to an M8 IMO a used SA102 is your safe ticket if you wish to bring back or better what you used to like with your 9200.

I feel bad about that bum steer. I really enjoyed listing to the ARC-Contour combination, but it was with an ARC pre and a really good Simaudio CDP. The fact that you have enjoyed the Contours with a different amp indicates there is a path to happiness with the rest of your current set up. Holding out for an affordable Plinius amp might be a safe bet.

Well, I am sorry to say that the ARC 100.2 was a nearly total disappointment. Although a very musical amp, there was very little in the way of bass extension or slam. In fact, there was no slam at all. In my system, all other things being equal, this amp was the leanest most polite portrayer of the lower frequencies than anything that has come before (Plinius 9200, McCormack DNA-225, Odyssey Stratos Monos, and even the Adcom GFA-555!!) Perhaps with different speakers, a different preamp or a different room, the ARC might have worked. But in my system.... not so much.

So I am back to the drawing board again. Looking at a Wyred 4 Sound ST-1000 or maybe going back to the Plinius P-8/P-10. Need to stay under $2000. Anyone care to weigh in on how the W4S amps have worked for you?

Cool - I like the ARC-Dynaudio match very much. Someday you might want to try ARC pre and DAC too.

I have settled on a very nice sounding ARC 100.2 which doesn't stress the budget and fits in my equipment rack, and which sounds fantastic - at least on some familiar recordings. The Plinius amps just don't fit Playing some material I am blown away, and on other recordings, not so much. It almost seems as if some days it sounds fantastic and others I am wondering what I heard "the other day." Overall, I am pleased, and I appreciate everyone's help in this process!

Fredorama,

Did you come up with plan B? I realize I posted recently on this subject on AC, and had forgotten, didn't recognize this was a related thread. Dooh!

Have you considered a big used ARC tube amp? I have heard these sound really good with Dynaudio Contour's. Their solid state amps sound pretty good too.

The best match i've ever seen with them is the NAP200. Another interesting option could be the SuperNait...

Believe it or not my little Qinpu A-1.0X sounds extremely good driving my Dynaudio Contour S3.4 speakers. Also have a Musical Fidelity A3.5 and Onkyo A-9555 which both sound quite nice with this speaker.

Fredorama,

Were the Odyssey's new? I have read they take "FOREVER" to break in fully, as much as 250 hours of use and several months, not just being turned on for a few weeks... YMMV

http://www.soundstage.com/revequip/odysseyaudio_stratos.htm

it's all fun right? Try the Pass X150.5 I think you might have a winner.

Tvad you are right. I am calling it a day with the Odyssey experiment. I don't know at this point exactly what I am going to replace them with, but I find the Odyesseys tinny on top, a bit too fat and loose on the bottom, and the tonal balance was off for me. To get the bass where I liked it, the mids and highs were too intense at that volume. I am done tinkering. It's been three weeks. Yes the amps have gotten better, but they probably are just not a good match for my system.

Well Doug, I am happy to have cleared some things up for you. With the help of our audio brethren, at least somebody has figured something out here. Happy listening!

Do yourself a favor and add the Pass X150.5 to that short list..Pass and Dynaudio are a match in heaven.Same $$,more power

Tvad - and others, thank you all for your comments. I am off the modding thing. It does not appeal to me any more. What I did was order the Odysseys, which now I am concerned about, based on TVad's comments, and the fact that I do see them come up used fairly often. Klaus is VERY persuasive, but I have chosen to believe him that this pair of monos is special. (I looked in the mirror just to be sure the word "sucker" wasn't imprinted on my forehead). Hope it doesn't appear there any time soon. I do have a 30-60 day evaluation period. So if I choose to return them, I will be out $250 in shipping. Cost of evaluation = not great but only way to know.

Now I am considering an ARC 100.2 @ $1600, and the Plinius SA-102 @ $2400. I would like to hear all three but can't afford the cash flow hit to do that. Would like to get two out of three in my home though. And so my dilemma continues....

and I am going to buy one more amp to compare them against - either the ARC 100.2 or the Plinius SA-102.

Appears your trying to convince us your mindset is correct even though most disagree with it.Buy the mod amp and get back to us when ya sell it or need service.Personally I tend to follow advise from those who have hands on experience with what I want to know,seems to work better..Enjoy the amp!

Tvad - RE: The Plinius modded amp, there was a modded P-8 that I think would have been perfect, but I was outbid at the last minute and lost out. P-8s are not easy to come by, let alone a P-8 that someone else already had paid to get modded by someone I know does a good job. So my idea was to buy an SA-100 for $1700 and pay $550 to have that modded by the same tech.

But the tech told me that the SA-102 had some features (primarily the beefier dual power supply, and the 25% increase in wpc) that would still outperform a fully modded SA-100 in terms of current and woofer control. So he recommended I try to find an SA-102 and use it for a while. Then, if I wanted some more performance out of it, I could send it to him. I thought this was a reputable and honest piece of advice, as there was no immediate business angle in it for him.

As I said in my prior post, I am very close to ordering the Odysseys AND the SA-102 and selling whichever I like least. Thanks again for your comments. This can be a frustrating process.

Dpac - Haha I know what you mean! Time is never on our side... Thanks for the clarification on the speakers. I am using a Peachtree Nova as my preamp / DAC. And yes, have heard how hot that SA-102 gets. I don't live in Edmonton, eh? - and Philly summers are hot enough as it is. I have looked into the 100.2. Can't find anything bad about it. But still tempted by Klaus' slightly used supercharged Stratos Monos that he tells me are in the realm of Khartagos and Kismets.

I found a mint condition SA-102 in black that I can get shipped for $2400 from a dealer. Having my rservations about 1) the size (won't fit in my shelf space), 2) the heat in class A, and 3) your comments.

Would love to hear from anyone else who has paired the SA-102 with the Dyn 3.4 or 5.4. I agree they are similar, with the 5.4 being tougher to drive. This should mean that the 102 will sound better with my 3.4s than with your 5.4s.... but I dunno...tough one. I may just buy two or three amps so I can hear all of them and then sell the ones I don't like as much. But -- what a pain!! Trying to avoid that.

I am sorry if that sounded harsh Tvad. I know you are only trying to help.

Tvad, if what you're saying is that the demand will be lower on resale, thus I will get a lower price or it will take longer to sell, then I agree with you 100%. But I am interested in getting a pleasing sonic result first and foremost; not in endlessly switching out my gear year after year.

I really am not concerned if I happen to lose a few hundred bucks because my modded amp will be harder to sell. What I am concerned about is whether the mod improves the sound and performance. Isn't that what we're all here for in the first place? Perhaps you have been buying and selling gear for so long that you have lost focus on the primary reason we are here; to enjoy our music.

Thanks Missioncoonery, Tvad and Dpac for your thoughtful responses. The guy who mods Plinius that I am talking about - Vince Galbo - worked for Plinius for about 12 years. Between him and Scot Markwell (the current US distributor), they were the only two importers of Plinius to the States in the 90s. Vince helped design the amps and knows them inside and out. (e.g. When the company started using cheaper parts to save money, the differences and specs of every component and wire used for every model year, etc).

So.... while I think that your advice may be generally true, I don't believe that is the case here. Even Scot Markwell says that Vince is a genius when it comes to making any Plinius amp sing. With a 102, Vince himself told me not to mod it until I had lived with it for a while - it was that good out of the box.

Now...Dpac, you just killed me with that last post. After many anxiety ridden days, I have on my desk, a check written out to buy an SA-102 for $2400 shipped, mostly due to how great the 9200 sounded, and figuring that the SA-102 would be better in all respects (except maybe raw power). Now you have me wondering again. So I may be back to square one here...

I looked at the Pass X150.5. Everybody says buy the 250.5 because it's just that much better. I can't afford the 250.5, so I punted that idea. Don't know anything about the ARC....but will research that, especially based on your comments. Still wondering about the Odysseys. Spoke to a guy last night powering his Dyn C2s with the Stratos Mono Extremes - had 'em for four years and happy as a clam.

Oh brother.....