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Best bass in Earth! Bass that just smells right...

Bass ,room acoustics, attack, delay, headroom, pressurization, and integration with the main speakers. So this has been my quest. Perfect bass that enhances everything yet detracts from nothing...

Over the 25 plus years as a hobbyist (mostly Audiophile/Music lover) yet also a mechanical engineer and Virgo perfection is a must. Once I heard the swarm/distributed bass array done right I was sold. I probably have spent 10s of thousand over the years buying and selling just bass/subwoofers and every gizmo to aid in this process.

I finally find myself with 26 10 inch woofers (only using 20 at the moment)  from four Kinergetics sw 800's in a small 20 x 16 room. 4 towers with 5 10 inch Seas each and 2 of the smaller subs with 3 10 inch woofers each. They are all in great condition given age the drivers are tight and work perfectly. Of all the money I have spent in home audio this has been my most difficult challenge to achieve perfection. I love Stats and Maggies but also like AC/DC and other music that the plannars are not the best at. Dyna Audio and Dunlavy speakers are the fastest coned sealed speakers (I am sure there are a million speakers out there that equal or better them not here to debate speakers) . I personally have always preferred the sound of FAST sealed cone speakers.

Back to the bottom foundation which I feel all speakers need regardless of price and woofer size. Trying to get four Sub woofers correct in a room is not easy. I probably have 200 hours into these SW 800's and now trying different AMPs and configurations. Im close but not there Id give it 88-91 percent but that last 10 percent is the magic.

So for they peeps out there getting into this can of worms. First unless your a sadomasochist like me it's probably best to buy a system like the Audio Kinesis or Debra system. It's just guaranteed results. Second this is for music not HT there is a difference. Although I had the HSU ULS 15's sealed 2 of em and they are darn good, Revel b 15' A's, Muse Model 18's along with several others. These SW 800's are more like actual speakers that require a lot of work to get right. They also use a funky forward distortion feedback Compusound circuitry (Im not an EE but from what little I was able to read it sounds like a forward servo design in their BSC cross overs) tons of pros and cons to the design but the fact they were meant to mate with the original Martin Logan full panel CLS says volumes when it comes to transparency. Although I dont use the high pass just the low pass.

So if you are into real music and enjoy room pressurization with out destroying (actually increasing, presence, timing, and smell of the music) multiple subwoofers are a mandatory.

I am writing this post for all the peeps getting into real bass so you dont make all the mistakes I have made. We all know how expensive mistakes are that is and why we are members of Agon and other groups. I do want to Thank a couple of members on here for their help and wisdom. I wont name them they know who they are. And special Thank you and Happy New Year to the moderators and founders of Agon for giving all of us a place to gain view points, experiences, and wisdom!

-Allgood
haywood310

Showing 2 responses by millercarbon

millercarbon's avatar
millercarbon
12,531 posts
 
There is no stereo information at the lowest frequencies. Even if there is, there isn’t. I’m not gonna get into a technical spat over timing either. None of that matters. The simple fact is human beings cannot even hear low frequencies at less than one full cycle. Yes that is a fact. Yeah, science! So timing information or no timing information either way it doesn’t matter because you simply cannot hear it.

Both the physics and the psychoacoustics of really low bass are so radically different than midrange and treble I am about ready to give up trying to explain. One in a hundred pays attention and thinks. The rest already have their closed minds made up.

But wait! Miller! You are famous for saying your system has taut articulate 3D holographic bass! Liar liar pants on fire!

And that’s intellectual and tightly reasoned compared to the mindless repetition that is sure to come.

Whatever. Look. What people hear at low frequencies is volume. Period. Higher up we hear all kinds of detail. Down low its volume. Our brains and ears take the volume down low with the detail higher up and from that combination construct the 3D experience of stereo bass.

That’s the only explanation that fits all the observable facts. It explains why my 4 and 5 sub systems have exactly as much holographic 3D imaging when run mono as stereo. Exactly. The. Same.

So there is stereo, in the sense it can be heard. But there is not, in the sense its really mono.
millercarbon's avatar
millercarbon
12,531 posts
 
When Duke says "My understanding is that true stereo below 80 Hz is actually quite rare" what he means is unicorn rare. Something people talk about but never quite manage to find. There is no stereo bass information down low. Even if there were we’d never hear it.

Mine are actually hooked up L/R now. Actually three on the left get the left channel, the right channel goes to the two on the right. But I tried it lots of ways, including all mono, and the one thing you will never hear is any difference between stereo and mono. Between 4 ohm and 16 ohm, for sure. Different positions, yes but not to the same extent. Phase? Even less so.

Stereo bass is definitely a thing. I could play you one recording after another, and guarantee you will be freaking amazed at how much character, definition, and 3D localization there is to the bass. It does whatever it needs to do, from pin-point where the drum was hit to all enveloping cocoon of man cave magic. Whatever it takes, its there. But all that sense of where it is, is just as good whether subs are wired stereo, or mono.
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