beryllium vs diamond

In a perfect world you probably want a pure pistonic driver that is ultra light to get the purest of sound that it's being fed. I'd like to introduce carbon fiber/balsaood drivers. They can be used for all the drivers. There are so many advantages to doing this. Technology has really helped this industry greatly. This new type of driver is very expensive and difficult to produce, however when implemented correctly you get what you expect and that is a seemless mix Of your drivers and when blended with a carbon cabinet the designer can really control resonance etc. it's so much more than just the materials. You still need great implementation.

,,,and that's why I'm selling my regular Treo's and getting the Quatro CT's as soon as I can afford them. As most know, I have travel a lot and I've listened to all the major and many of the minor speakers out there. That inlcudes teh 100k plus stuff like XLF's, Tidal, Magico, Dynaudio, Focal etc... For my ear, none give the clearity and the fabric of the mucic like the Vandy's do. Just my ear of course, however even the Vandy dealers who are selling other speakers as their 'front line' speakers will tell me often that they chose the clean sound of the 7's over the other speakers beccause they connect to them better, but that the other 'brands' sell better due to advertising and placement, plus the others have a much larger profit margin built in. We all know what hype does for out hobby. That's why we need to get out and listen more when we can, lol.

I've heard some Be's and some diamonds that I have liked, but some I haven't. The Magico's I heard were much smoother on top than what I remember hearing last year. They just aren't my speaker as I can't emotionally connect. I've honestly tried as I was offered a pair for a rediculous price.

The one think I have liked about the Vandersteen 7's is what I stated above and that's the fact they can use the same carbon fiber in all their drivers so there is a coherent family sound that meshes really well. I am not saying it's the be all, end all by any means. In the end a great designer can build a nice sounding speaker with good quality drivers, but as we get better technolgy, the greats are upping their games and we all win. I personally don't love the idea of having Be in my home if I don't have to. I have MS and am very concerned about it even though I'm not touching the tweeters. I probably should say that as so many like those tweeters. Again, JMHO.

Mel, I do like the new Magico's much better than before. No question for me. I have heard diamonds sound pretty good before too, but for some reason I have felt the carbon tweeters seem to be more natural. Again, just my ears.

What's happening is that like anything else the implementation of carbon or diamond is most important (like anything else). The true goal is true pistonic movement of the cone structure (that's the biggest part, but we all know there are so many other things they need like dissipation of back wave etc..). That's one place Richard Vandersteen has really worked on for years now. I think he was the pioneer of this. It's nice to see the other companies trying to accomplish the same. I would love to hear the new Magico's again, but I've just never been able to connect with them. I do like them MUCH better than the Wilsons, that's for sure. I have a very hard time connecting with most speakers. There are only a handful that I've been able to and most I can't afford, lol. I did like the new Proac D 30R's I heard, but for that price I still felt the Vandersteens were much cleaner, articulate with much more bass, lower bass and much tighter bass. The drum kit sounds like my old Gretch 6 ply's used to sound like. I'm actually very open minded as components sound differently all the time. Designers know what they are doing and they tune their gear to what they feel will sell best. Some of the old timers like Vandersteen and a few others will still turn their gear to what they feel is the most true to the music and not tip up the highs a spec or add some mid bass bloom. I really respect those designers a ton and thank them.

Mel, really? Bar none? Please show me where I've ever said bar none or anything remotely like that? I have always said we listen differently. You go on and on about telling me how great Magico's are and I've listened to them because you keep going on about them. Not for me, but as I've always said and just posted elsewhere on another thread you are also posting on, that they just aren't for me. I even said your Magico's are better for me, but they don't do it for me.
I've been nothing but civilized, kind and polite in my posts. I've never said that Vandersteens are for everyone. Nothing is mel.

Sorry that I've touched a nerve here. That's never been my intention. I don't have filters and that's polarizing, but I can't help it as I do have cognitive issues with MS, so I post what's in my head. You aren' the first person I've polarize and you won't be the last. Sorry though as my intent is to have fun and share.

Mel, I really am happy that you love your Magico's. I really am. I'm not trying to change your mind. Never have been and never will.

On to the thread which is good. Like anything else it's implementation. Most I know have loved carbon drivers in some form. Many love diamond or BE drivers. I do think that materials have specific sounds, however we've all heard various materials that we say we don't like but when implemented properly, can sound very good.

mel, thanks. I think you get me a bit. I come off as a prick at time possibly. I know what I personally enjoy and what I don't. Funny as cooking is another hobby of mine and you nailed it. Heck, I speak with a few of the very well known posters on here and we all have similar ears, but not quite the same. It's fun to go listen to their systems or have them come listen to mine. It's rare that we ever get anyone to agree on everything. That's part of the fun.

Bo, you should get the Magico's and Vandersteens in that shootout. Carbon needs to be in this discussion. Again, we all know it's not totally about the material, it's about the implementation AND material. Carbon is very special in audio right now and depending on WHICH carbon fiber you are using, you will hear something different. There are so many new technologies that designers can use these days, that they are really making huge strides. Probably more than at any other time in audio history. Most older speaker technologies just don't sound as good as the new ones implemented properly. Regardless of WHAT type of sound we each like, all of us seem to love our newer speakers made from diamond, beryllium or carbon fiber. Someone moved the cheese and the landscape is changing with it.

Smod, if you read this thread fully, we are taking bout a few other materials.  I have personally enjoyed the Vandersteen Quatro CT's for awhile now.  As we have mentioned, it's all about implementation.  A great designer can get any of these to sound decent, but for me, nothing has beaten the Vandersteen Carbon drivers yet.  I love Tidal, Rockport and many others, so it's not me just being a fan boy.  I'm not a Wilson or Magico or B&W fan.  It's often the way they voice them.  Too forward or too laid back are sounds I can't fall for.  This is just me and what I love.  I need micro and macro detail. It's where the emotion is.  Too many speakers are fast and revealing, but can be fatiguing if not don't correctly. 

All designers have to make compromises, regardless of cost.  That goes for the half million dollar speakers that are out there.  Too many get wrapped up in 'what is the best material etc..', but there isn't any.  It's what certain designers have chosen to achieve what they want.  We all have favorite designers who's products we usually love.

smodtactical141 posts07-15-2019 12:58am@ctsooner those carbon tweeters on the Vandys look extremely appealing. You make it sound like they have the detail of a magico but the ease of a Wilson ?


To my ears, as well as many I know, the Vandersteen’s put you a third of the way back in Orchestra in the middle seat. They are also near or full range (depending on your model).

Not trying to turn this into a commercial though.

I searched to find out if some tweeters are 100% Be with no substrate, but the best I found was ’Be Foil’. Either way, you are trying to get pure piston movement of all speakers (dynamic).

Troy, all we see posted about the Digm's are excuses and blaming other components.  I have looked at your posts on them for years now.

I heard them at the first stop of their North American tour here in CT with a Krell system and disliked them a lot.  just too bright.  They do some other things well, but they are just a bright speaker. I then auditioned them in other set ups and herd the same common problems.

I then even took you up on your offer to hear them in NJ and it was a ton of excuses on you products not set up due to a photo shoot the night before and I think some of you electronics weren't 'burned in', but my buddy Jeff heard the same thing with them that I did and he also had heard them at in other systems.

Many like that bright fatiguing sound, but most don't.  It's just that simple and there is nothing that will change that.  

These threads are fun to read though as it's teh same excuses.  It's also not like I have anything against Paradigm as I've purchased an pair of speakers and a sub from them in the past (daughters college system).  They were perfect for the dorms and cheap with the discounts they offer to move gear.  it's a great company who also stands behind their speakers.  

Just too bright for most of us, but keep this going and I get a refill on popcorn.

Guys, plenty of reviewers always write positive reviews.  Some don't know how to listen or what they are listening tot.  I know one who has joked about him getting free or LOW cost gear and all he has to do is post great things about someone's gear.  

We all are physically different.  Our ears are all different.  It's interesting how many of us are hearing the exact same thing though.  There is a market for most everything.

smodtactical168 posts07-15-2019 12:58am@ctsooner  those carbon tweeters on the Vandys look extremely appealing. You make it sound like they have the detail of a magico but the ease of a Wilson ?  For my ears they do, but we are all built differently and we all want to hear different things.  Often times folks don't listen to their own instincts and will listen to a dealer or someone doing a demo (in home etc..).  I try to listen to as much live music as I can with wife or friends.  That gives me a great idea on how things SHOULD sound when live.  Recordings are different.  That's why I try to listen to recordings that I know well on a few systems.  Again, it's what flavor do you like and can you trust your own ears and not have to trust others.  JMHO