Berning ZH270 vs 845 SET amp

I can't find universal concurrence that the zh270 reproduces the sound of music like very few others in my experience so it must be a taste issue. Top to bottom extension, clear natural midrange without anything additive or missing like many of the SETs. There is nothing wrong with that if it is your cup of tea.

On the issue of being "fast" what that means to me is that it resolves all the musical information on the recording with natural dynamics intact, no exaggeration of the leading edge. To me the amp is more on the "laid back" side of things not having the immediacy of some other amps I've heard in familiar systems. It doesn't have a character as some amps do but reflects what it is matched with to a greater degree.

It also works with a wide variety of speakers in my experience, certainly not limited to Merlins which it is frequently linked with.

I agree completely with Diamonddude, Airwise and Slowhand. I've had the amp for 5 years and it still makes me :) Thanks You David Berning!

Well Mike, that may be a possibility. You could play it safe and go the SET route. Another option with those Coincidents is consideration of another OTL like Joule or Atma-sphere. Not a thing wrong with those amps. Great top to bottom frequency extension but they are about as hot as a sauna in a small space. The Joule is as Swampwalker notes, richer, more apparent harmonic texture but I'm not too sure it is as accurate but it is very seductive. What is more important to you seductive or accurate? Then again accurate can be mighty seductive when all is right. You probably just need to listen to some of these amps first hand to be sure. As noted above, if you picked up a used Berning with all the toys you would have little difficulty selling it at close or equal to what you paid. They are rather rare amps but they do become available.

There is one thought I would like to add to this discussion and it is the primary reason I own the zh270. What is your objective? When I first got into this hobby over 20 years ago it was to improve my system so that classical music and accoustical music in general sounded more like what I hear at a live performance. This has lead me down numerous dead ends and some temporary satisfaction but like most audiophiles there never seems to be a final place of "I've arrived"

The point I am trying to make is that the Berning is that rare product that has the foundation to get one to that place, poor recordings aside. I have heard it first hand, not in my system but it is capable of reproducing music as you might hear it live. So in my very strong opinion the Berning is a rare product in that respect. No it doesn't sugar coat, it may be brutally honest as some have suggested but it is nothing less than anything it will be matched with in my experience. I find it one of the few products I have come across that is just intrinsically right and this becomes more apparent the longer I own it and the more systems I have heard it in. It is a very elegant efficient design with few if any peers with the level of absolute performance it is capable of along with the built in reliability. It is evenhanded across the frequency spectrum. I have not heard nor has anyone that has listened to this amp commented on an aggressive upper midrange. This is not characteristic of the amp although I have no doubt that Peter and his listening group heard this or perceived this based on other issues. This is the cavaet, the other components the most important being cabling and software in my experience. I have found this amp to work very well with a host of different speakers from Legacy, Montana, Sonus Faber, Quads, Merlin and most memorably with Verity Parsifals. In all cases the amp performed extremely well. You can't get a clear idea of what to really expect until you listen. At the end of the day it may prove that the Berning is not for you but you really can't take anyone's word for this. The excitement that many feel concerning this amp is real and valid for them although it certainly isn't for everyone. What audio product is or ever was? We all have different goals and prioriites.

PS Everyone on this thread should hear Vettrone's new amps. Congragulations Steve, I have heard many fine things about those amps, sure would love to hear your system!

"He made the comment, that for me to like the Berning amp I would have to like the sound of live music not HI fI. I thought that was interesting..."

Liking one does not negate liking the other but of course there are differences. Many in this hobby are interested in acquiring sound that suits their tastes with absolutely no interest in having it sound live yet there are some that are in it to seriously get closer to the real thing while knowing that the reality is ever elusive. These are goals exclusive of each other and I'm sure that was his point.