Belden 8402, 8412, and 8428


I am starting to have some time to play around lately so decided to try some cable comparisons and to make some more cables.  

I have been exclusively using Furutech u-P2.1 interconnects made with FP601/602 balanced connectors.  The cable is a 19awg fine stranded OCC copper in foamed PE with a copper braid shield.  There is really nothing to complain about.  However, I have previously made other cables including ICs using Western Electric wire, Duelund wire, and Belden 8402 a 20awg tinned copper cable that is said to impart a tonally rich, dense, midrange, at the slight expense of the high/low frequency extremes.  IME, all of the tinned copper does that to some extent.  Jeff Day wrote a few articles for Positive Feedback about it (about 5 years ago) after the guys from SPEC Corporation said the 8402 ICs and Western Electric 16awg speaker wire contributed to "Real Sound" or musicality. 

I have a few 8402 cables around here (Vampire or DH Labs XLR connectors) so I replaced one of the three sets of ICs I currently need with the 8402 and started making cables to replace the other two sets.  One set is now completed and spending some time on the cable cooker, after which it will go from my DAC to my volume control.  I have started another set to go from my SMc buffer to my amps, where I currently replaced the Furutech ICs with a set of DIY shielded Duelund 20 awg (tinned copper) ICs.  I am noticing a bit of a difference between these tinned copper ICs and my Furutech cables, with the tinned cables being maybe a little warmer and denser.

I have tried the Belden 8412, which is similar to the 8402, because I was curious how the Belden tinned copper wire would sound with PE insulation and a different jacket but the 8412 doesn't seem to have the same level of warmth and engagement as the 8402, or the Duelund wire. 

I have also ordered some Belden 8428, which is identical to the 8402 except that the signal wires are 18awg and the outer jacket is CPE instead of the CPSE on the 8402.  I like the 8402's CSPE jacket much better than the PVC on the 8412 cable, so I hope I don't dislike the CPE, which is likely to be stiffer than CPSE.  Do any of you have any experience with the Belden 8428?  Here is a thread discussing several of those Belden cables, including the 8428 near the end of the comments.

This may just be an opportunity to try something new because I am bored, but it is also sort of fun.  I may very well go back to using the Furutech u-P2.1, which is well-made, good sounding, and hard to beat without spending stupid money.

 

mitch2

@climbereg 

I am glad if you find this thread useful.  It is almost 10 years behind the curve, i.e., after the fervor that started with Mr. Shirokazu Yazaki of Spec Corporation, when their vision of "real sound" was reported on by PF reviewer Jeff Day in PF Issue 78

Mr. Day was subsequently introduced to the Belden 8402 cable used as an interconnect and vintage Western Electric tinned copper wire used as speaker cable, by the folks at Spec Corportion, and then he introduced us to it in PF Issue 81, plus a series of Jeff's Place articles, where he documented his conversion to using the Belden and WE wire in his personal system.  Mr. Day eventually migrated to using Duelund wire, after they jumped on the bandwagon by offering various tinned copper in oiled cotton bulk wire/cable offerings.

I previously made cables from the 8402, WE, and Duelund wires, and I found the 10awg WE wire particularly useful for making power cables (either single or doubled up for 7awg!) and I later learned that Mojo Audio power cables have used that wire, as well as Triode Wire Labs American series power and speaker cables.  I believe the Duelund wire was sort of a fad, although it does provide a reliable source of tinned copper wire and does away with the inner plastic insulation of the WE wire, which was good for power cables since it was actually rated for voltage.

The IC cables I have made from 16 awg WE wire, and 20 awg Duelund wire, sound pretty good but I like using manufactured wire for ICs because you benefit from the uniformity of the manufacturing process (i.e., frequency of winding and the uniform use of packing/damping materials).  

I am listening to the 8428 interconnects right now, which, as I posted, are constructed slightly differently from the 8402.  The two main differences are the wire gauge which is 18awg for the 8428 (20 awg for 8402), and the additional cotton wrap directly in contact with the conductor wires in the 8428 cables.  I do have 3 pairs of 8408 cables on the way here, which are constructed exactly same as the 8402, except the wire gauge is 16awg vs. 20awg.  I suspect as you go larger in wire diameter the result may be a bolder, harder-hitting, but maybe thicker sound. The cables I made from 16awg WE cables displays those traits, but not necessarily in a bad way.  I cannot speak to the different termination methods as all of my cables are balanced so the braid shield is connected to pin 1 at both ends.  I suppose I could connect the shield only at the source end but would then need to add a spiraled ground wire outside of the cable as I do with the DIY WE or Duelund cables - too much work for no significant benefit.  I will probably eventually be passing off my two, 2M sets of 8402.

In comparison to the 8402, I would say the 8428 might display a bit more body overall, and deeper, harder hitting bass.  I find clarity to be pretty good, at least in my system and the 8428 cable seems to be at least as well balanced across all frequencies as the 8402. 

All of these cables seems to sound midrange-centric, where the body and tone of the mids are displayed as the most important features of whatever you are listening to.  Some say the result is rolling off of the extremes, but I wouldn't necessarily go there.  They sound pretty good, until I find something I like better.  As I said previously, the test will come when I reinstall my Furutech u-P2.1 (19awg OCC copper in foamed PE) interconnects.

@mitch2 It is interesting to happen across this discussion. After fooling with some boutiquey options, I was encouraged to try Belden 8428 following comments I had seen out of Asia and Europe. I terminated these with Neutrik gold plated XLR and grounded a both ends. This combination proved to be a stopping point. The only curiosity I've had since is perhaps solid silver just for the sake of comparison, but I have found the 8428 to be full bodied and just ever so slightly to the rich side of neutral, but not lacking in resolution or speed.

Hi, @mitch2, happy spring.  How are the cable comparisons coming and those 8408s sounding?

@climbereg - I ended up expanding the comparisons to include 8402, 8428, and even 8408, which is constructed exactly like 8402 except using 16awg conductors.

I then included a couple of types of (un-tinned copper) cables from Gotham AG, which is a company like Belden and Mogami.

I then added a full set of Cardas Golden Reference interconnects to the mix, and finally revisited my tinned copper DIY cables using both Western Electric NOS wire as well as the newer Duelund tinned copper in cotton wire.

I don’t have time for a full write-up but the result was somewhat dependent on both the equipment in place at the time (I have been trying different DACs) and the type of sound desired by the listener.  Even though I still have all of those cables, my system is currently wired using the DIY tinned copper cables by Duelund (20awg from DAC to pre) and WE (16 awg from pre to amps).  

Whew, sounds like a lot of work!

I am running 8402 and 8428, and curious about what could be gained (or lost) with moving to the larger gauge 8408.  When you get some time to organize your thoughts, would love to know if bigger is indeed better on those Beldens!