From my understanding, AEQ will set the frequncies to whatever your target curve is. AEQ with Room Correction will slightly roll of the highs & boost the lows.
No doubt someone will correct me if I'm mistaken.
I'd also like to know what all of the other function do. They may be more for professional use. |
Thanks guys! The Behringer is awesome but not nearly as much so as this group.
I ran AEQ (or was it Room Corr? question follows). The resulting curve, after I boosted <100 a little, was like a crooked smile. I described it to my friend on the phone as a 'Dick Cheney smile', no offense meant but that's what it looks like. The sound - wonderful. Now I understand what people mean by more clarity, etc. It truly is more effective than upgrading an amp or source. Details are evident (without making themselves aggressive, ick to that), high end is extended (ditto), just better balance all around. Soundstage seems to have deepened, the fabric of the music seems to be more integrated. Excellent. And I am not done playing with this thing.
So... what is the diff between AEQ and Room Corr? I see the buttons of course, but when to use what and how? And are you guys using the other functions... PEQ, etc? |
Kck...Below 100 Hz is probably a range where EQ is badly needed. The DEQ2496 suggests that the automatic equalization may not work well below 80 Hz, but for me it works fine.
Here are a couple of suggestions.
1...If you want more bass, turn up the subwoofer volume so that the DEQ2496 is cutting it down where needed instead of boosting.
2...Similarly, when you set up the "target" response curve, instead of boosting the low end try cutting the highs. The "ROOM CORR" function will do some of this for you. |
That's good news; I will try it in my new amp when it comes in. in the meantime, may I stretch my welcome with another question? (actually, that would make it two...)
From reading various threads I gather that you don't want to EQ below 100 (some say 80) hZ. I see the AEQ (or is it RTA) screen has zero dots below the 100 mark, and I see how to add them. The question is, after adding them, can I then tweak them (my choice is upwards). My rig includes speakers that are good to about 40-45 hz, but am also using a REL subwoofer that will go to 20. The REL is being run off the Neutrik connectors using the amps speaker terminals. There is no load to the amp as the amp's power is not used to drive these low freqs. Further, I read comments that say that EQ-ing below 80/100 hZ will also put a strain on the amp and speakers. How will the speakers get 'strained'... I mean, what they can do is all they can do, right? I understand if I am asking a driver that bottoms at 40 hZ to increase SPL in that range beyond the other freqs (assuming flat for this argument, which of course it rarely is). But if I ask that speaker to do 20 hZ flat, well it just doesn't care, right? OTOH, the amp should be able to pass that signal to the subwoofer, correct? |
Analog in and out is very high quality. The advantage of the digital interface is theoretical...maybe real but I can't hear it. I also have the DEQ2496 between my preamp and the electronic crossover going to the power amp. In general it would be better to put it in the TAPE loop (I don't have one) because the signal level would not be affected by the volume control. I avoid low signal level through the DEQ2496 by turning down the gain of the electronic crossover so that the preamp output signal is higher. |
Kck-
The pink noise runs until you hit "done". I was letting it go for about 5 minutes, but someone clued me in, now I let it go for about a minute in "fast" then another minute in "slow". That seems to be plenty.
Also, I use the anolog in/out. I have it between my pre-amp & amp, no problems at all. I couldn't be happier with this product. |
Thank you to the posters so far. Late last night, I had to try it one last time before going to bed; it was really bothering me. I experimented with the inputs...DUH! (hand slaps head).
I needed to put I/O on page 1 (input) to Pink Noise, not one of the others (I had optical). After this, it worked well enough for me to know that it will do the job, but I was beat and had to go.
I did let it run for a bit though, and it (the pink noise) seemed to go on for a pretty long time; I would guess at least 5 minutes. Is this expected/normal? The curve looked fairly different after but as I said, I had to go.
Thanks again! I look forward to playing some more tonight. I would also like to know if anyone has used analog in and/or out to the DEQ. I have seen many threads stating that digital IN is its strength, and I realize that, but curious if anyone has tried the analog with satisfaction. Reason I ask is I will be getting an integrated with a tape loop so that I can get all my sources on this machine, but with the easy ability to bypass it with a switch. (I think the bypass on the DEQ software is pretty easy too though). |
Eldartford is right - there should be no sound out of the speakers when measuring ambient noise. Check your I/O menu and make sure you're not sending the mike signal to the outputs. |
Kck...When measuring ambient noise (in the home environment) it should be dead quiet. I think that the ambient noise measurement may be important for pro sound applications where things may be going on while the sound guy is trying to get set up.
You might try using the analog output of the DEQ2496 into your amp. The D/A in the Behringer is probably as good as the one in the CDP, and one less item in the chain might help to isolate your problem. |
Thanks Drubin. I wish to emphasize that the sound out of the speakers is loud when it says Ambient. This is most weird and certainly not desired behavior. Then, a few seconds later, when it states it is measuring Pink, it seems to me that it is adding a layer of a slightly different pitch on top of that sound. How loud is the original sound? Loud enough to be heard from two rooms away. Definitely NOT an oversensitive mic, as the sound itself is the issue.
Hope you and/or others can help me get this solved. I have sent an email to Behringer as well. |
I had the same problem when I first got mine and managed to solve it, but now I can't remember how. I will try to figure it out, but I think it has to do, as someone on AA suggested, with the overall gain settings you establish. Ambient noise does tend to be greater than you'd expect, at least has been when use the unit in my system. You may have overall gain set too high.
I think there would be a small but enthusiastic market for "DEQ2496 for Dummies." I'd pre-order and pay a premium, LOL. |
Hi all, I have been following this thread in anticipation of getting my UltraCurve. Now that I have it though, :( :( :(
Why? Here is the message I posted to the Asylum this morning. If an expert here would like to pick this up, either here or via email, I would be indebted. Clearly this thing has immense potential, which makes non-success with it all the more frustrating.
http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/general/messages/426890.html |
And to add to Ecruz's observation, if your speaker can't do 20 Hz (and few can) set that frequency to -15 dB so as not to waste amplifier power and to avoid futile effort by the speaker. |
Make sure your speakers can go to 20 Hz. My speakers only go to about 26Hz, the first time I ran auto eq, 25Hz was boosted a few db and 20Hz was boosted a LOT. If your speakers can't go that low, it could put strain on your amp and/or speakers. |
Streetdaddy...Glad to hear that you are making progress. My room is also very asymetrical and every speaker of the multichannel system is different. If +15 dB caused clipping your signal level must be on the high side.
What is the 20Hz EQ for the other speaker? I would try swapping the speakers...perhaps the problem (need for +15dB) is in the speaker - not the speaker location. |
Ok, finally making some headway. For some reason when i did an auto eq it was boosting 20 hz{lowest freq} +15db and this was screwing everything up. I have an asymetrical room, and they highs are cut on the open ended side. Does this make sense? The speaker closer to the wall was pretty flat. |
Eldartford,
The airport express has an output that senses what is plugged in {ie mini jack vs optical} and outputs digital or analog depending on what type of cable is used. The beauty of this is i am using my wireless laptop with itunes to feed the airport express which outputs a digital signal to the behringer and then i use the analog outputs into my Rowland Concerto. I don't know why my first attempt with the behringer sounded muffled. I ran it again and it sounded much better. I now need to run it one speaker at a time, because my room is assymetrical. |
Streetdaddy...FYI I had to Google "Airport Express" to find out what it is. Yes, extra A/D and D/A are theoretically best to avoid. But a digital chain such as you are using needs to be consistent with respect to the format of the digital data. I think that the airport express has an analog output. Try it and see what happens. |
Streetdaddy - did you EQ the channels separately? If so, the likely explanation for clipping on the left is that some bands are boosted enough to raise the digital level enough to clip. In the Utility menu, Page 1, there is an option to reduce EQ gain offset. You may also want to manually reduce the bands that have very high boost, which could be an artifact of mic position (e.g., a room-induced bass drop that is hard to fix with EQ). |
What do you mean? I am going all digital from computer to airport express to behringer. I thought this was the best way, as to avoid going digital to analog a couple of times. Am i missing something? |
Streetdaddy...Try analog. |
I am running the airport express into the behringer with the digital cable. |
Streetdaddy...The straightforward explanation is that the input level is too high. What signal are you puting into the DEQ2496? |
My level meter on the left hand side hits the red clip mark even when playing at low levels. Did i have the settings too high when i did the auto eq? |
Ecruz...Possible explanation ...
1.. The analog circuitry is just input and output unity gain buffers. These are easy to implement with near zero distortion.
2.. The D/A and A/D modules are about as good as they come.
3.. The heart of the unit is its digital processing which can't be tweeked by hardware mods. |
I've been very happy with my DEQ, but after having such outstanding results getting my Sony 900 modded by TRL, I wanted to see if they could mod my Behringer DEQ.
Long story short, I exchanged a few emails with Brian at TRL, he told me that they have tried, but are unable to get any significant improvements out of this machine. He said they worked on one for two full days and ended up sending it back to the guy, along with the his money.
I think that says a lot for the Behringer. They are getting huge improvements out of very expensive cd players, DACs, etc but can't squeeze anything more out of this $300 EQ/DAC.
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On initial comparison, whichever has less upper midrange/treble (bypass or eq)is likely to sound muffled. Let your ears adapt before you pass judgment. If after listening for a while, it still sounds muffled, try one (or both) of two things: (a) whatever cuts the auto-eq made above, say 2kHz, reduce those cuts by half (e.g., if it is -6 dB, manually adjust to -3 dB), or (b) use one of the parametric bands as a treble control by setting it to H 6dB with a frequency of 2 or 3 kHz; boost by a dB or two. Also, make sure that you're not being misled by an overall level difference - try turning up the volume on the setting that sounds muffled. |
It's the opposite for me. When I hit bypass it sounds muffled. |
Ok, i think i did the auto eq correctly. I also hit the room correction button. When i toggle between the bypass and eq'd, the eq'd version sounds very muffled. Any suggestions? |
I used the Rives CD (uncorrected) with the Behringer SPL meter function. The only downside is that I have to sit in front of the Behringer, which places me sort of in the way of things. |
Streetdaddy...I have been down the RS meter/Rives CD, and with it I could never get the same results two times in a row. Perhaps it is a matter of exactly where you locate the mic or the meter. On the average, the RS meter results agreed with the DEQ2496, but were much more variable. Of course you should not expect agreement down to the last dB. The world is not that exact. I assume that you are using the tracks on the Rives CD which are supposedly corrected for the considerable errors of the RS meter. Also, I have heard that there have been several lots of RS meters, and all may not have the same errors. |
If i run the auto eq and then double check it with my rat shack spl/Rives audio test cd, should it measure flat? I did this eq and it wasn't flat. Maybe i did something wrong.? |
RTA page 1 MAX and RANGE are just so you get a good display and will not have any effect on the EQ. You want to select MAX so that the display never hits the top, and you want to set the RANGE so that there will be something to see even during quiet parts of the music. Your settings will depend on the gain of the amps and sensitivity of the speakers, but on my rig MAX = -20, and RANGE = 60 works.
(MAX is negative, because it is dB down from the reference level. In other words, -10 is louder than -20).
If you want to roll off highs at 1 dB/oct hit the ROOM CORR button. Most people like this, but you have your choice. |
You have to make sure that the max span you allow is about 5-6 db. Then I bring the boosted frequencies down so they're only 2-3 db up. Everything has to be right to get a good result. It's not as easy as just hitting the autoeq. Other settings must be right also. |
also, are you in the auto eq mode or the rta mode? Do i need to hit the room correction or does this happen automatically when i hit auto eq? |
What are you setting the max, level and range on page one of the rta page? |
Streetdaddy said-
"When i hit auto eq, i see the circles moving. But some of them are still at +10 to +15 after a couple of minutes in "fast" mode. Is this a problem? Will it eventually get to flat?"
The "circles" go where they need to, to make the sound flat at the mic. They don't move back to flat on the display.
Not the most elegant explanation, but I think you can see what I mean. |
Streetdaddy...I realize that the white noise SPL is not displayed on the autoeq screen. The 85 dB (approx) that I suggest is based on measurement using my Radio Shack meter. I don't think that the exact level is critical, but to minimize the effect of ambient noise it should be loud. But not too loud, and if the bar level indicators on the left of the screen are hitting the top this may be the case.
Are you sure that uou have selected the mic input to be equalized?
Keep fooling around and you will get it figured out. |
Ok guys,
I finally got mine y'day and am trying to get it up and running. I hit auto eq and i see the process going on page 3. The pink noise is playing, but i do not see a db reading on the Behringer. I read where Eldartford set it at 85 db on the Behringer. Where is this measurement?
Also, my levels are hitting the top of the meter on the left hand side. Is this a problem?
When i hit auto eq, i see the circles moving. But some of them are still at +10 to +15 after a couple of minutes in "fast" mode. Is this a problem? Will it eventually get to flat? What setting do i leave it on when i am finished setting the auto eq?
Thanks.
Kale |
If it's not connected to the pre or the Behringer, but it is turned on, there is no buzzing. If it's connected to the pre with the Behringer turned off there's no buzzing. If it's connected to the pre with the BEhringer turned on there is buzzing. Obviously the Behringer is picking up something and sending it to the amp, I just don't know how to isolate and remove it. |
Ecruz...What if the Squeezebox is turned on and in the room but not connected to the audio system? It apparently radiates a signal, and maybe that interferes with the Behringer.
Why don't you talk to the Squeezebox service people. |
It does go away if the Behringer is off. |
Ecruz...The Behringer has a "hard bypass"...you can turn its power off, and the signal will pass through it without any analog or digital processing. Try leaving all the wires connected and shutting the Behringer power off and see if the problem goes away. |
Eldartford-
http://www.slimdevices.com/
The connection doesn't matter. It starts buzzing as soon as the Sqeezebox is plugged in to the outlet, even if it's connected to the pre-amp and not the DEQ. |
Try Toslink connection to see if it makes any difference. |
Ecruz...What is a Squeezebox? |
I just developed a new problem. I installed a Squeezebox, connected via ethernet. Runs great, no problems, until I turn on the Behringer, then there is a loud buzzing. As soon as I unplug the Squeezebox, the buzzing goes away. It doesn't seem to matter where the Squeezebox or the Behringer are plugged in, same conditioner, same outlet, different conditioners, different outlets, if they are both running, there is buzzing. Also doesn't matter if the Squeezebox goes into the pre via anaolg connections or into the Behringer via digital. Both on, buzzing. One or the other on, no buzzing.
Any ideas? |
"Sometimes an input wire from a turned-off source can be noisy...noise that goes away when the source is powered up..."
"I'm guessing that with the preamp off and thus an open circuit to the input, some noise is being picked up on the input causing the problem."
I bet it is something along these lines. I'll keep you posted if there are any further developements. |
I read somwhere that Behringer service was poor. I guess that advice was all wet. |
Here's the response I got from Behringer
Hi Eric and thanks for writing to us!
First I would recommend turning OFF the power amp (to prevent any more potential 'pop' sounds while you are troubleshooting and turning things on/off from reaching your loudspeakers), and then attempt a factory reset on the unit by the following steps:
1) press & hold keys "compare" and "memory" during power up.
2) confirm reset by pressing "OK"
Then leave the unit on for an extended period of time, such as overnight or while you are away at work for the day, to try to reproduce the error message symptom (again you may want to leave the power amp turned off during your testing to avoid the possibility of the 'pop' being amplified to the speakers again).
If the error message still occurs after performing the factory reset procedure above, that could indicate a DSP error within the unit, and I would recommend contacting the dealer to see about making arrangements to exchange the unit for a replacement at your earliest convenience. Or,
if exchanging the unit for a replacement through the retail dealer is not possible, please use the instructions below to get in touch with our warranty service department and we will be glad to help you make arrangements directly through BEHRINGER.
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