Rubber Soul and Revolver are my go-to Beatles albums. I haven’t played SPLHCB in over fifty years. Same for Abbey Road. Way over half of the white album is unlistenible.
Mick Jagger is a terrible singer, Keith Richards a mediocre guitarist (for verification, watch Chuck Berry trying to teach Richards how to play "Oh Carol" in Hail! Hail! Rock 'n' Roll. Keith can’t do it.). And they made a disco album. End of story.
You know why so many have covered Beatles songs, and so few those of The Stones? I do, but you are of course free to consider Jagger & Richards good songwriters if you wish. When was the last Jagger/Richards song you like written? Does fifty years ago seem about right?
|
@bigtwin: Two matters:
1- The lyric is actually "when (not "well") after after all it was you and me."
2- I did answer the question: I choose neither. Yesterday I went into my local record store to pick up an album they ordered for me: Lonely Soul by GA-20, a Blues band out of Boston. I walked into the store a coupla weeks ago, and while perusing the LP racks heard music playing on the store’s sound system to which I was immediately drawn. Song after song was fantastic: raw, primal Blues, sort of like early Fabulous Thunderbirds meets a Garage Band, including their version of "Got Love If You Want It"---a Slim Harpo song I had first heard on the Kinks debut album, a fabulous version, far better than what The Stones were (and are) capable of. By the way, I hold The Kinks in higher esteem than both The Beatles and The Stones.
I went over to the counter and checked out the front cover, on which I saw a coupla youngish (compared to me ;-) guys with beards. The back cover had a picture of the two guys holding cool vintage guitars, and album credits. When I saw the names Charlie Musselwhite (harmonica) and Luther Dickinson (slide guitar), I was sold. I rarely do impulse buys, but this one was a no-brainer. My favorite new band!.
Oops, there I go again, penning a short novella ;-) . Back to the topic:
So I entered the store yesterday to pick up the GA-20 (yet another terrible band name ;-) album, and what did I hear playing? That horrid, droning bore of a "song" "Within You Without You" (the damned sitar RUINED George Harrison!). Oh no, I thought to myself; it’s that pos Sgt. Peppers Lonely Hearts Club Band. I had other titles I was looking for, and as I started flipping through LP’s I was subjected to "Lovely Rita" (oh for God’s sake, are you kidding me? Who actually likes this sh*t?). That was all I could take. See ya guys, I’ll be back.
If I heard Sgt. Peppers Lonely Hearts Club Band today, as a new release, would I like it? Would you? It strikes me as incredibly corny, especially McCartney’s British Music Hall/nostagia bullsh*t. At least it wasn’t side one; "A Little Help From My Friends"? "Fixing A Hole"? "She’s Leaving Home"? Please, kill me now.
|
Speaking of Goffin and King (a favorite songwriting team of McCartney & Lennon. And me ;-), give a listen to Nick Lowe’s (Dave Edmunds’ partner in Rockpile) recording of their song "Halfway To Paradise". OMG, talk about Pure Pop paradise!
Dave & Nick of course included a 7" single containing their recordings of Everly Brthers songs in their Rockpile (the group, not Dave’s debut album) album. Good, but nowhere as good as the brothers themselves.
I absolutely adore "World Without Love", as well as "Bad To Me" (recorded by Billy J. Kramer), both songs given away by John & Paul. For cool versions of Beatles & Stones songs, take a listen to the Sire Records albums of The Flamin’ Groovies. Edmunds produced their Shake Some Action, a favorite album of mine (reissued by Jackpot Records of Portland Oregon---a half hour drive from me---in 2022). The best tribute band of all-time ;-) .
The early Groovies albums were obvious in their love of The Stones, and the much more Beatles sounding SSA came as a surprise to many long-time Groovies fans. Groovies main songwriter, singer, and guitarist Cyril Jordan in interviews stated that the reason SSA was more Beatles than Stones influenced was that prior to the recording of SSA they hadn’t been good enough to emulate The Beatles, but The Stones were within reach ;-) .
|
In the 1990’s I lived in Sherman Oaks California, as did Billy Swan (and Johnny Ramone and Dave Edmunds ;-) . Billy was a singer-songwriter whose sole big hit was "I Can Help". Billy and I became acquainted, and he recounted to me an experience which recalibrated my frame-of-reference.
Long before meeting Billy I had seen and heard many the 1960’s "greats" live: The Beach Boys in 1964, The Beatles in ’65, Cream and Jimi Hendrix in ’67 and ’68, The Jefferson Airplane and The Grateful Dead in ’67 (the same show), The Jeff Beck Group in ’68, Quicksilver Messenger Service in ’68, Them (with Van Morrison) in ’67, The Kinks in ’70 and ’71---they were SO great!, The Electric Flag (Mike Bloomfield and Buddy Miles) in ’68---awesome!, Procol Harum in 1971---majestic! (even without organist Mathew Fisher), and many, many others (living in the San Francisco Bay area was not without its benefits ;-) .
Yet when Billy told me about seeing Elvis, Bill (Black, upright bass), & Scotty (Moore, guitar---one of Jeff Beck’s idols and role models) performing live on a flatbed truck in 1956, I was overcome with jealousy. It brought 1950’s Rock ’n’ Roll alive to me. I SO wish I had been born ten years earlier!
|
For those who like the Rock 'n' Roll of The Stones; You ain't heard nothin' yet. Get yourself some Dave Edmunds albums, and see how it's really done!
|
See, for me it was Big Joe Turner, Hank Williams, Chuck Berry, Jerry Lee Lewis, Fats Domino, Buddy Holly, Little Richard, Carl Perkins, Elvis Presley, The Everly Brothers, Gene Vincent, Eddie Cochran, Muddy Waters, Howlin’ Wolf, Slim Harpo (about whom Mick Jagger said "What’s the point in listening to us doing ’I’m A King Bee’ when you can listen to Slim Harpo do it?" Finally, something he and I agree on ;-) , and numerous others who created the road map for all who followed. John Lennon idolized Chuck Berry, Paul McCartney Buddy Holly. The early Beatles (and Stones) albums contain lots of covers of their idols songs, and once you hear The Everly Brothers you know from where John & Paul got their 2-part harmonies. But then The Every Brothers got it from The Louvin Brothers; many readers here may not want to follow the bread crumbs that far back in musical history ;-) .
Have you ever heard "Money (That’s What I Want)", the original by Barrett Strong? Compare it with The Beatles version. The superiority of the original is DRASTIC! The original is filled with smoldering musical tension (very sexual), The Beatles version laying their like a limp....uh, fish. Yes, the Fab 4 wrote great songs, especially beginning with those on Rubber Soul (a favorite album of mine). And Revolver imo revolutionized Rock music. But in a good way? Remember what Eric Clapton said in The Last Waltz? "Music had been headed in the wrong direction for a long time, and when I heard Music From Big Pink I thought finally, someone has gone and done it right." No sh*t Sherlock ;-) .
I saw both The Beatles and The Stones live; The Beatles were mediocre, The Stones terrible. Anybody can make good music in the studio. Seeing a band (or solo artist) on stage is where you see what they really "got". Seeing and hearing Dave Edmunds live was an unforgettable experience. Rock ’n’ Roll performed as Keith Richards only dreams of! Seeing Big Joe Turner live at Club Lingerie in the mid-80’s (backed by The Blasters) was a night I shall never forget. Mick Jagger? Surely you jest!
@cd318: Hearing Smiley Smile in early-1968 was a life-changing experience. I was for years obsessed with the Smile saga (reading about it in Crawdaddy Magazine, by writer Paul Williams, later compiled in his book Outlaw Blues. Essential reading!), as was a great songwriter I knew. He and I made a pilgrimage to Brian’s Bel-Air mansion in the summer of 1975, demo in hand (engineered by yours truly), to ask if he would produce us in a pro studio. It didn’t work out ;-)
In my opinion, Brian Wilson is at the head of the class as far as 1960's and beyond musical artists goes. My first concert was The Beach Boys at The San Jose Civic Auditorium in the Summer of 1964. I met Dennis Wilson in the Summer of 1981. My group was playing at Blackies, a Punk/New Wave bar near where Dennis' houseboat (upon which he live) was moored. He was sitting a table alone, drinking. It was surreal; there I was, face-to-face with the first drummer I had even seen on stage. Rest in peace, brother.
|
^ ;-) .
While McCartney is a pretty good multi-instrumentalist, he can barely play drums. Emitt Rhodes---very Beatles influenced---started on drums (during his Freshman and Sophomore years in High School he was in The Palace Guard), moving to guitar and vocals when he formed The Merry-Go-Round in 1966. The group had a national hit single while Emitt was a Junior. On his 1970 debut solo album he wrote every song, played every instrument, and sang every vocal part, as did McCartney on his solo debut that same year. Play those two albums back-to-back, and you will see why I consider the idolization of the music of 1960’s groups over-the-top. Emitt’s album is considerable better than McCartneys. IMO, of course. Emitt’s songwriting, playing, singing, and production are first rate. Billboard Magazine declared Emitt’s album to be "One of the best albums of the decade." Not the year, the decade! I’ll wager far more people own McCartney’s album than Emitt’s, a ridiculous state of affairs, and a real shame.
Another great solo debut in which the artist plays and sings (almost) everything is Dave Edmunds’ 1971 album entitled Rockpile. While not a songwriter, Dave has excellent taste in material, and album is chock full of blistering hot American Rock ’n’ Roll. The album was recorded at Rockfield Studio in Wales (Dave is Welsh), with Dave producing. The album produced one hit single, the absolutely amazing "I Hear You Knocking". Dave went on to make some of my favorite music of the 1970’s and 80’s, far more to my liking than did McCartney, Lennon, Harrison, and The Stones.
|
Jim Keltner says The Stones were Charlie's band. ;-)
Charlie was well known for creating the "feel" of The Stones; he played the snare drum back beat real "late" (far back in the pocket, in drumming lingo). A lot of Rockers who discovered Country music in the late-60's/early-70's (Gram Parsons made Country hip to some), as well as The Stones feeble attempts to play it (Keith came under the influence of Gram), want their drummer to play their Country-Rock ala Charlie, with that late back beat.
I invested a lot of time and devoted a lot of work to be able to play "deep pocket" style---like Roger Hawkins of The Muscle Shoals Rhythm Section aka The Swampers (Aretha, Boz Scaggs, Joe Cocker, Paul Simon, The Staple Singers, Duane Allman, Albert King, Bob Seger, Etta James, Wilson Pickett, hundreds of others. One of my two favorite drummers), Jim Gordon (Derek & The Dominos, All Things Must Pass, Traffic, L.A. studios), Al Jackson (Booker T & The MG's), Ringo, and the late, great Levon Helm (my other favorite).
In the first decade of this century I did some gigs with Rick Shea and Jonny Kaplan, a couple of such guys, well-known in the L.A. musical community. After working so hard at being able to play in the center of the pocket (think of the pocket as a V-shaped hole. The closer you move to the center of the hole, the deeper the pocket), intentionally playing late was not fun. It was in fact painful to my musical sensibilities. But, as the saying goes, give them what they want. ;-)
|
Rockpile. Their Paul was Nick Lowe, their John Dave Edmunds. I saw both The Beatles and Rockpile live ("only" 15 years apart ;-), and Rockpile were by far the better band. So are NRBQ, Los Lobos, and plenty of others (Marty Stuart And His Fabulous Superlatives. When Norman Maslov---"Mazzy" of the YouTube Vinyl Community, a serious die-hard Beatles fanatic. His Beatles collection is larger than many people’s entire record collections---starts to talk about Marty & his band, he almost hyperventilates).
This continuing idolization of 1960’s Pop/Rock groups mystifies me. They made some fine music, but that was a LONG time ago. Others have made music just as good---if not better---since then. And some music at least as good was made before their time. There was nothing magical about the 1960’s. Except the mushrooms ;-) .
|
Yes @alvinner2, for those of us who were there in 1964, the artificially-created rivalry (to sell teen mags, perhaps) was The Beatles vs. The Dave Clark Five. And to be completely honest and truthful, I vacillated between the two. In my Jr. High School’s 8th grade talent show in the late Spring of 1964, my little combo performed both "I’ll Get You" by The Beatles and "Glad All Over" by The DC5. But it was Brian Wilson and his Beach Boys who remained my favorite group. As for The DC5. they weren’t able to keep abreast of the rapid evolution that Pop music experienced in the mid-60’s, and were all but forgotten by 1966 (maybe even ’65).
Long-time record collectors are already aware of this, but in 1964 Vee Jay Records issued an album entitled The Beatles Vs. The Four Seasons (each LP side given to one of the two). When Capitol Records was in 1963 offered the first UK Beatles album for the U.S. market by Parlophone Records (a subsidiary of E.M.I.) they declined the offer! By the time their second album (what became named Meet The Beatles in the U.S.) was ready for release Capitol Records had seen the light ;-) .
We were all confused by both Meet The Beatles on Capitol Records and Introducing The Beatles on Vee Jay Records being in the racks at the same time, but bought both. The Beatles had greatly improved between the recording of the two albums, the first having been recorded in one single 14 hour session!
To capitalize (no pun intended ;-) on Beatlemania, Vee Jay came up with the idea of the Beatles Vs. The Four Seasons (their big Pop act) album. Even we young teenagers though it was ridiculous, and few bought it.
As for The Beatles vs. The Stones, this may be hard to believe, but I don’t own a single Stones album. Never liked ’em, and after reading the interview with Ry Cooder in Rolling Stone in 1970 or ’71 (in which he recounted what transpired when that band of wankers paid him to come over to London to record. Find the interview, you will never see "Keef" and Mick the same again.), they were dead to me. Having to watch Keith in the Chuck Berry documentary (Hail! Hail! Rock ’n’ Roll) he made was brutal. Witnessing his lecherous, leering behavior towards Norah Jones when they duetted at The Gram Parson Tribute Show in The Universal Amphitheater was a truly disgusting, horrifying sight. What a pig. And a grossly over-rated guitarist and songwriter. IMO, of course.
|
