Ayre V-5x vs. McCormack DNA 225

This is certainly what makes this hobby so different. Nobody can agree on anything.
Sorry, but having owned all of the above mentioned amps and able to compare side by side, I'll stick with my opinions.
The Belles 350a controls the woofers of the Vandersteen 3a Sigs better than the 225. It makes subs almost a moot point.
The 150 Reference is better still and one of my all time favorite amps.
I don't know what associated equipment the above posters were/are using and the context of the comparisons but unless they are done in the same room with the same equipment, you don't really know.

If you want a slightly forward sounding amp with a lot of drive, the McCormack is it. It is not as refined as the Ayre nor is it as liquid sounding. The Ayre soundstage is also considerably better with more depth and a quieter background.
The McCormack amps are better in the bass than the Ayre with the latter sounding a little lightweight in comparison.
The McCormack amp is a good one. However, the Ayre is just flat out better sounding through the mids not having that very slight touch of grain the McCormack has.
I use the Ayre with Vandersteen 3A Signatures. The Ayre really works well with phase and time correct speakers. I also use a pair of 2Wq subs that render the slight lightweight bass of the Ayre a moot point.
May I also suggest you listen to the Belles 350a and 150a Reference amps. Both are better sounding than the 225 by a good margin. I also think a tube pre works best with the McCormack.

I almost forgot, if you go back and read Stereophile's review back in 2000, you will see that the lack of soundstage width and depth was mentioned. It was stated that it remains between the boxes.
The Ayre amp goes way beyond the outside of the cabinets in my system and depth is unbelievable.
Here again, I'm sorry, but the 225 is not in the same league here.
The 225 is a good amp but not up to the standard's of the Ayre.
But, as noted, what ever rocks your boat is the way one should go.

4yanx, I didn't say the soundstage was bad in the 225, I simply said the Ayre is better which it is. I also said the 225 was a good amplifier but it is certainly not as liquid as the Ayre nor is its midrange as good. The 225 was given a "B" position by Stereophile and has pretty much been agreed by other reviewers indicating where it stands and even though I too don't put much faith in Stereophile, in this case, I think they are right on. You've got to ask yourself though why did the amp not soundstage with the Revel speakers. I find this curious since I can think of no logical reason other than the reviewer is making a subtle statement.
Steve McCormack has always made an excellent amp but the inclusion of caps in the input signal path to the amp, I feel, are its downfall. Any cap in the signal path will affect the sound in someway. The amp is powerful and at its price point, a good deal. The ouput stage is biased in class B (same as the Belles amps)and it runs very cool.
It also uses negative feedback to achieve some of its specs. The Ayre does not use negative feedback and I think this is where the Ayre's sonic purity comes from(which can be said for Theta's dreadnaught amp.) I did state early on that I thought the McCormack was better in the bass(I understand from Ayre that the "Evolution" upgrade solves this.) McCormack's upgrades I'm sure would take the amp to a higher status just as it does with a fully done DNA .5(another amp I like very much)
Lastly, I'm glad you like the amp so much and I'm sorry I can't agree with your conclusions. As long as you are personally satisfied, that's all that really matters. We will just have to agree to disagree. I would submit that the person above looking for an amp listen to a lot of different choices and not limit himself to these. If he finds the 225 suitable, then he has saved himself a chunk of money over the Ayre. It took me several months to figure out what I was hearing that made me like the Ayre and find it worth the money. Some things take time. Audio is a funny hobby. There's a reason you see so much stuff for sale on the used market.

Now that we've gone this far into this post, what preamp and sources are you using?
Yes, I have put all the amps mentioned head to head in my system in my room with my electronics. I would never comment on a piece unless I had done so and used it for an extended period of time. I have personally owned all the above mentioned amps and a few more including the Parasound JC1's, a pair of McCormack DNA .5 Deluxe(which I actually liked better than the 225 or 125.) I have wasted enough money to set up a nice retirement plan in pursuit of a amp that does what I want it to do.
All of the above amps are excellent in their own way. A lot is personal preference. We could quote reviews or whatever and make valid points for any of them in a given system. The Ayre has been called one of the best period and has also had a bevie of sterling reviews. The Belles amps have had sterling reviews. We wouldn't need all of the stuff available if everyone liked the samething.
I will say this and it might have a bearing on why I like the Ayre. Jim Hansen uses Vandersteen 3a Sigs to help voice his amps. He has discussed this over on Audio Asylum. I also use an Aesthetix Calypso preamp and Jim White personally uses the 3a Sigs. So it may be a synergy thing.
On the other hand, in my personal conversations with Steve McCormack, he also uses 3a Sigs(and yes 4yanx, Steve makes some great amps)so---who knows!
For Rebl208, it is not frequency response that is in issue. The Ayre is perfectly flat through the bass. Frequency response is but a small part of an equation to why something sounds as it does. The zero feedback approach is about timing and phase issues. When you feedback globally, the signal is taken from the output and fed back into the input 180 degrees out of phase. This affects the timing/phase of the amp and contributes to the amp taking on a harder sound. More and more are beginning to experience this when the products are compared. Tube amps use no negative feedback and this is thought to have a profound effect on why they sound so liquid.
However, it is certainly your right to choose as you see fit.

Zaikesman, nice honest review. The McCormack amps have always offered a lot for the money. You know, when you deal with competently designed amps, differences are going to be minor anyway. The preamp and source will begin to dictate sound quality along with synergy of the system. I agree with you on the 125 sounding a little better even if it doesn't have quite the power. I thought the same thing in the comparison of the .5 to the DNA 1. For some reason, the DNA 1 sounded a little harsher and somewhat restricted. I thought the .5 was a little more open and smoother.
Reb1208, to each his own and I get the picture as I'm sure everyone else will.

Zaikesman, I actually used a pair of .5 Deluxe amps in a bi-wire, biamp configuration with my Vandersteen's. It did make excellent sound. I had a single 125 and 225. I thought both amps sounded somewhat identical except for a touch of roughness in the 225. The 125 seemed a bit more liquid.
I'm sure the VTL's would be hard to beat. I would have tube amps except I don't like the maintenance.
I bought the Ayre because it seemed to bridge the sound somewhat between solid state and tubes. The Ayre amp doesn't jump out at you at all. It is extremely neutral which makes it seem like it's not doing anything. I like the amp because for the first time, the Vandersteen's vanish.
You get this huge soundstage that almost makes you believe you have surround speakers(in fact, I have been accused once or twice by friends over for a listen.)
Vandersteen's are funny speakers. They almost have a love/hate reputation but they will let you know what is going on in front of them. When I used them with an old Adcom GFP750 preamp, the system sounded marginal at best through the Ayre. I then inserted my Audible Illusions L-2. Things begin to open up but I felt dynamics were a bit restricted. Then came the Aesthetix Calypso. With it in the system, I saw why reviewers thought the Ayre was "One of the best amps, period." It just opened up with wonderful depth and liquidity.
I went through the Parasound JC1's which sounds much like the McCormack DNA 500. However, these amps never opened the soundstage depth up to a believable degree.
I also went through the Belles 350a that Doug Blackburn raved about with his personal reference Vandersteen 3a Sigs.
It is an excellent amp by all measures. It was very, very close to a keeper. Blackburn also used the newer 150a Reference Belles amps which he reported were better than the 350a and even better if a pair is used in mono.
I have been in negotiations on buying a pair to test the water here and it may or may not happen. After reading his review, I really would like to test drive them one time. If they don't work out, I can use them in my home theater or resale them.
There have been others.
So you see, I didn't arrive at my conclusions on a whim. It has been an ongoing process over the years refining my ears, the system and what I wanted to achieve.
I am a older audiophile who has been at this for over 35 years. I'm not a head banger nor do I play amps at the end of their capabilities. I enjoy all types of music and have wanted a system that is accurate, musical and non-fatiguing.
It has been a long, long process with a lot of doubts and I've spent way too much money experimenting.
But, I have gotten real close to a real world system at a real world price that does the trick. I guess when I die, I'll just tell my wife to drop all this stuff in the casket! Anyway, that's my story for what it's worth.

4yanx, I bet that will be a heck of a combination. Steve's upgrades really sound good in the few upgraded amps I have actually heard. I'll be sending my Ayre in for the "Evolution" upgrade later this year.
I use two sources, both SACD and CD, a modified Sony xa777es(I learned of this mod through Richard Hardesty's Audio Perfectionist Journal that transformed his 9000es player)and a Wadia 861se. I had it upgraded from an 861.
I think my next speaker move will be the Vandersteen 5A's. Since they have the subs built in, they would actually work better in my room. I heard them at a friends home last year. They are truly a wonderful speaker. So if you see my 3a Sigs and subs for sale, you'll know what's going on!