Thanks for the clarification, Bob. I recently had a chance to analyze the DuoTech with the Cooker's circuit designer. I've been wanting to do this for a couple of years. We found a very strange multi-square wave being produced, that looked like sharp "hash" on the scope. While we didn't put a great deal of time into it, the signal appeared to have three distinct square waves but couldn't nail them down individually without dismantling the unit. The voltage also seemed to sag when a speaker load was placed on it. Speaker cable break-in is accomplished via 2 small rectangular modules that plug into RCA's on either side of the main unit. It seems that the same circuit conditions both interconnects and speaker cabling.
There was little current to speak of, as the the DC wall wart powering the unit was only rated 500 mA. That's about it, other than a comment that the signal didn't appear to be very efficient or powerful. |
The Audiodharma is one of those "components" that I would suggest everyone own. I was impressed, greatly... I now make cooking standard on some Virtual Dynamics products. Do yourself a favour, take the leap, this is one of those improvements "anyone" would call dramatic and be able to hear the obvious difference. I invested in one and have heard the result! I now understand there is no other way to get optimal performance from a cable. Expect more, you will not be disapointed. Great job Alan!
Rick Schultz |
Oz very interesting - never occurred to me that coax could be enhanced!
Alan I must have had the Dharma confused with DuoTech - that's apparently the one that kills MIT cables. I know he wasn't referring to the Nordost unit, although that might present complications as well (or not?). |
Highly reccommened !!!. I have been burning in Cables for a few days now on my new Cable Cooker.
I own Acoustic Zen Silver,HMS,Zu,Electraglide Signature, Kimber Select and various other interconnects.
I have also burned in Power Cords from Electraglide Fatboy, Zu, Synergistic, JPS,Whale Elite.
All of these cables were burned in for 24 hours and the difference is night and day ...Outstanding!!!
Just for the heck of it I also burned in some RG6 cable for my Sattelite and Cable and the Picture quality is like I added a Amplifier !!!
I am really impressed ! |
Bob......some corrections to your statement.
I don't know where Mr. Brisson obtained his information, but the Cable Cooker does NOT put out *any* DC component in its multiplex signal. Period. The Cooker puts out a high-voltage, high-current, steady-state signal in addition to a swept square wave covering the audio band.
It may be that the capacitors in the MIT boxes are shorting the Cable Cooker at higher frequencies, causing the Cooker's power supply to immediately shut off. This is a built-in safety feature of the power supply. If it sees something it doesn't like (like a current or voltage aberration), it shuts off. Also, there would be NO damage whatsoever to the cabling.
Two Cooker customers had this occur to their MIT cabling. The LED's on the Cooker "blinked", as the unit simply didn't operate. They reinstalled the cabling into their systems and everything worked just fine. Unfortunately, no further conditioning could take place. Owners of Transparent cabling have no problem with the Cooker, nor does the Cooker have any problem conditioning Transparent Audio cabling. The LCR networks seem to benefit from Cooking, as do the cables.
alan m. kafton |
Hi Sean the Dharma cannot be used with networked cables because it also outputs a DC component which of course would trash the network's inductors; Mr. Bruce Brisson Pres. of MIT told me this info. personally. |
I can't believe the transformation cables make after they break in .
But...it can take a long time. I am always trying this Cable brand against another, most Manufactures wantthe trials back within 30 days or less.
I have tried various home made ways to break in cables. The most common is to play music non- stop thru speaker cables driving everybody in the household nuts!!
I have owned the Mobie and I liked what it did, but it would not burn in Power cords or Speaker cords.
If the Cable Cooker shortens the process it will be worth it. |
"Alan, i'll have to stop by your website and take a look at the info there."
Be sure to check out the Cooker FAQ's.
"Out of curiousity, would you be open to further comments, questions and possible suggestions via private email about the product?"
Sure.
"PS.. If you have it drop shipped here, i'll save you the trouble of breaking in the break in device : )"
Nyuk, nyuk, nyuk. Oddly enough, the irony is that the Cooker *doesn't* require any break-in itself....it's good to go out of the box. Keep in mind it's not producing a listenable audio signal that needs conditioning for better sonics.
alan |
Alan, i'll have to stop by your website and take a look at the info there. Out of curiousity, would you be open to further comments, questions and possible suggestions via private email about the product ?
Ozzy, hope it does everything that you expect out of it. Out of curiosity, have you ever used a burner or had cables burned for you before ? Sean
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PS.. If you have it drop shipped here, i'll save you the trouble of breaking in the break in device : ) |
Thanks everyone for your help. I ordered a Cable Cooker.
ozzy |
Thanks for the in-depth and point by point response.
I think that a lot of what we are hearing take place when burning cables has to do with the dielectric "settling" along with slight changes to the conductor. As such, i can see the Mapleshade's not taking very long to "settle" or "burn in". They have next to no dielectric or "insulating jacket" to deal with. I think that this is also most of the reason that the Goertz speaker cables basically have miminal break in time. I would think that air or natural fiber ( like cotton ) insulation on a solid core wire would also provide much faster break in times compared to most "plasticized" stranded cabling. Then again, these are only "edjumacated guesses" so i could be out in left field.
Outside of all of this, given my background in electronics, i would not have believed the difference that "cooking" a cable would make if i had not experienced it for myself. As i've said before, i truly believe that you've never heard what a cable is fully capable of until it has been "cooked" on a burner for an extended period of time. The results were instantly noticeable and beneficial on every cable that i've done this to. This is regardless of the price of the cable or how long it had already been running in a system for. If you have the opportunity to try something like this, i would HIGHLY recommend it. Sean
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Sean:
"As far as the power cords go, are you saying that they are fed the same signal as what is fed to the speaker cables?"
Yes. There are two separate circuits (and two separate signals)....one for interconnects (lower level), and the other for speaker cabling and power cabling (higher level).
"Out of curiosity, have you ever had any feedback as to how the CC stacks up against the Nordost unit?"
Another dealer, other than Joe Cutrifelli at JC Audio, has compared both. He sold his Nordost. Another customer did the same. This is third party, but they told me that the Cooker was "qualitatively better", and faster. Joe would have to comment further as to his experience.
"I don't know much about that piece other than it supposedly works on a timed circuit and is designed for "complete treatment" within 24 hours, etc..."
The CBID (signal) was primarily designed for their cabling and their dealer network, but I've never heard Nordost make this claim. And I sat in on a presentation at CES a couple of years ago. I think the 24-hour cycle is a safety feature, as Joe says, but one must repeat the cycle to get the cables more fully conditioned.
"Personally, i don't see ANY cable being fully burned in that amount of time but i know for a fact that the results are audible if you stop at that point using a Mobie."
Excepting for cables that have seen a good amount of time in a system, 24 hours isn't enough for a brand new cable. But on cabling that's been in a system for a while, 24 hours (on the Cooker) seems to be "enough". Customers are using their Cooker's for a recommended "recharge" every 3 or 4 months, finding that this overnight-to-24 hour conditioning maintains a high performance level for their system. As you likely know, break-in is a long-term phenomenon, but not a permanent one.
"How long do you recommend burning various cables for on your CC?"
Cooking time is dependent upon the gauge of the conductors, the number of conductors, and the amount of dielectric material. Generally, for brand new cable, the guidelines are 1 1/2 to 2 1/2 days for interconnects....2 to 3 1/2 days for speaker cables....and 3 to 4 days for most power cables (some extremely heavy-gauge designs could take longer). Of course, periodic listening tests are important to determine the optimal conditioning time for different designs, after doing what I call incremental periods of Cooking. There are some exceptions to the above guidelines, such as for the very light-gauge solid-cores and foils. One customer owns Mapleshade Double Helix, and found that only 4 to 6 hours did the trick, after trying to fully condition the cable in his system for a month.
Without intending to be promotional, you can find out more particulars by reading the Cooker FAQ's on my site. I'd be happy to answer any other questions or comments you have.
alan |
From what i've been told, you are not supposed to run cables with built-in networks on these devices. Why, i don't know. As to "overcooking" a cable, what happens if you leave it playing in your system "too long" ? None of these devices CRAM signal through the interconnects. They produce a signal that is above what they would normally see by a few times. I find it hard to believe that there is damage being done to the dielectric, which is probably rated for TONS more voltage than what they are supplying.
Keep in mind that this is not "hypothetical" as i've left cables on my "burner" for well over a months time ( maybe even two months ) and had no problems with them whatsoever.
I know that a lot of this is in the "early stages" in terms of development and what we know. Too bad we can't get someone in a lab to literally scientifically analyze the differences in "burned" and "virgin" conducting and dielectric materials. I'm sure it would be interesting. Sean
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I have used both. First of all even though the Nordost unit shuts off after 24 hours that is only intended to keep one from overcooking a cable. You just reset after every 24 hour duration. Nordost actually told me that cable like the Valhalla can take 5-7 days minimum. I like both of them but the nordost is harder to use as the speaker binding posts are very close together and a real pain with spades. In addition, long runs of interconnects or those that use boxes such as MIT, don't appear to work. The light completely shuts down anyway. So can't tell if it is working or not. |
Alan, Thanks for your direct response and the info that you've provided. I've seen one of your CC's up close for a brief period of time but have never had the chance to use / open / measure one of these devices. If you'd like to send me one, i'd be glad to report back to you with my findings : )
While i don't know the exact range of frequencies covered, the sweep rate, step rate or the amplitude of the signal fed to any of the cables, i do think that the use of a "roving" signal would be more effective than that of the single stationary tone that the Mobie generates. In that respect, i think that we may be thinking along the same lines.
I had talked to Bob Crump about this who had talked to Tony at G&D about a design change that i suggested. Tony commented something about lack of circuit stability, etc.. the circuit was not capable of doing what i wanted it to do. Quite honestly, i don't see any problem in building a very simple and stable yet more effective circuit than what the Mobie has to offer. Either way though, i do know it works and works pretty damn well for what it is. In comparison, it works a MILLION times better than the old "Duo-Tech" that i used to have. Running the Duo-Tech was basically a waste of electricity in my opinion as i was never able to tell any difference between "treated" and "untreated" cables. Cosmetically, the Mobie and Duo-Tech are NOTHING to write home about. If something of that nature is important to the end user, your unit easily takes the cake in that category.
As far as the power cords go, are you saying that they are fed the same signal as what is fed to the speaker cables ? That is how i interpreted your comments above. I was "assuming" that the power cord was actually used as the power source to feed the burner and was not actually being "treated". That is why i commented that such a low draw on the cooker itself wouldn't effectively load the cable hard enough to make it worthwhile for use.
Out of curiosity, have you ever had any feedback as to how the CC stacks up against the Nordost unit ? I don't know much about that piece other than it supposedly works on a timed circuit and is designed for "complete treatment" within 24 hours, etc... Personally, i don't see ANY cable being fully burned in that amount of time but i know for a fact that the results are audible if you stop at that point using a Mobie. How long do you recommend burning various cables for on your CC ? Sean
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What do these puppies cost? |
Sean......the Cable Cooker delivers a steady state, multiplex signal measuring just a hair under 2 amps of current (for the speaker cable and power cable circuit), in addition to a swept square wave. I know you've expressed your skepticism before, but end-users, including dealers and cable manufacturers, can testify to its efficacy.
Power cables may also be daisy-chained without any practical limit and without any signal degradation. A major audiophile cable manufacturer, for instance, conditions 12 or 13 power cables at a time, in addition to their interconnects and speaker cables.
I hope this information satisfies your question.
alan m. kafton
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Not to hack into Ozzy's thread here, but how much current can this device pull in terms of breaking in a power cord ? Sean
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I have used one for almost a year now. On some cables like Valhalla it is imperative that it be used. I can never get it to sound right without using the Cooker. Some cables need as little as a day. Some like Valhalla I actually cook 5-7 days. In addition to interconnects and speaker cables it will also cook power cables. We do not sell these devices and I have nothing to gain in this post other than sharing my experience. Hope this helps |
I have had one since the beginning of the year and would never buy a new pair of cables without one any more. One day on the cable cooker beats hundreds of hours of breakin. |
