Audio Science Review = "The better the measurement, the better the sound" philosophy


"Audiophiles are Snobs"  Youtube features an idiot!  He states, with no equivocation,  that $5,000 and $10,000 speakers sound equally good and a $500 and $5,000 integrated amp sound equally good.  He is either deaf or a liar or both! 

There is a site filled with posters like him called Audio Science Review.  If a reasonable person posts, they immediately tear him down, using selected words and/or sentences from the reasonable poster as100% proof that the audiophile is dumb and stupid with his money. They also occasionally state that the high end audio equipment/cable/tweak sellers are criminals who commit fraud on the public.  They often state that if something scientifically measures better, then it sounds better.   They give no credence to unmeasurable sound factors like PRAT and Ambiance.   Some of the posters music choices range from rap to hip hop and anything pop oriented created in the past from 1995.  

Have any of audiogon (or any other reasonable audio forum site) posters encountered this horrible group of miscreants?  

fleschler

Showing 3 responses by sns

The battle lines are drawn on the inherent battle between human senses and measuring bots, who do you trust more?  I'm a human and I choose to please myself vs bot, I don't care if some so called 'authority' deems my system inadequate.

 

On the other hand, I don't believe a measuring regime is totally without merit. I'd hope and expect those doing the design and engineering of audio components use measurements in this endeavor.

 

Innovations and improvements in measurement protocols will hopefully produce better sound quality over time. How measurements correlate with various aspects of sound quality has a long ways to go before any measurement regime can be considered Biblical in nature, IMO.

 

"A man's gotta know his limitations", assume subjectivists understand this, objectivists, not. Don't understand how so many worship gods invented by human's filled with excessive certitude, I guess some don't like greys and/or anything less than win lose outcomes. Seems to me, we now live in a society that inculcates a version of game theory that insists winning is everything and losing is the worst thing that could happen. The farmers and the ranchers should get along, so should S & O.

 

Leaves one question, if O gives up win/lose, they no longer O?

@invalid Yes, this is how science works. ASR and followers write off observations phase by the claim our senses faulty. Which means present measurement protocol is end game. Don't expect ASR to come up with new measurement protocols, this will come from manufacturers who listen (observe) to their equipment and ask themselves how can I make this better.

How about some empirical data points.

 

Context: Long time audiophile, heard many multi $100K systems, my own system well over $100k.

 

Cocurrently owned Auralic Vega, LKS 004, Okto Dac 8 stereo, Musetec MH DA005. I know ASR reviewed both Okto and Musetec, Okto superior signal to noise and jitter measurements, Musetec did rather poorly compared to virtually every dac they've measured.

 

My experience with all these dacs, Musetec superior resolving, transparency, at least equal to Vega and Okto in ease, relaxed qualities, far superior dynamics, especially micro.

 

Based on ASR measurements, this dac should be relatively low resolving, transparency, have nervous, digital sound quality,, small sound stage. None of these things relate to how it sounds.

 

ASR signal to noise measurements of dacs has virtually no bearing on real world listening as analog section in audio systems higher noise. I see virtually nothing in their measurements that gives much insight to quality of dac power supply, things like authority, micro dynamics, or how it impacts flavor. More interested in jitter measurements, while 005 poor jitter measurements don't translate to sense of digititus or small sound stage, would be insightful to see improved jitter with this unit and see if that translated to even more ease and larger sound stage.

 

005 has been also compared to at least one other dac they've tested, vs Mola Mola Tambaqui, another superior measuring dac, 005 preferred in at least one case. 005 has also been compared to Weiss and Holo May amongst others, held it's own in all company. Based on ASR measurements this dac sucks, not true in real world.

 

It would be enlightening to see far more of these empirical data points, comparison reviews of dacs ASR has reviewed would give us far more insight into possible correlations. My take is this particular measurement protocol tells us very little about how these dacs sound in real world.