Audio Science Review = Rebuttal and Further Thoughts

Just don’t shove YOUR method to other peoples throats

@thyname BINGO! I don’t understand why such folks bother coming here and claim they are ultimate authority. I don’t care a rat’s rear about such people. Waste of time arguing with them. Best is to ignore such people.

To see a members system  from a thread just click on their handle/name in a post and click "details" in the drop down menu.

Have you ever noticed any system posted by the so called measurement folks? I don't doubt that some of them might have actually some good components. I feel it must be because they believe in measurements, they simply purchased a pair of speaker, some components and plopped them in some corner or even worse, who knows.

I don't know if careful setup is part of their system implementation process. Actually placement is the only measurement I do in my system. Takes me days sometimes when I fine tune with my ears. But when you purchase a pair of loudspeaker based on driver measurements (parts measurement, not sum of whole speaker), then I guess placement would not matter.

I have to presume you haven't really spent a lot of time on ASR

I agree. Only a person who is insane can spend considerable time there. When the leader of a forum states that "I know all I have to know" to begin a discussion, that is the time you know that it's a closed forum and nothing can be gained by spending time with them.

good cross-talk measurements, proper balance in both channels reaching the ear etc

Very good point. And do all the folks have the exact same ear cavity size, etc? What if some people are hard of hearing, or some people are extra sensitive? You folks realize that not all people hear the same...right? But do you know, the ear sends the "vibration/sound" signal to the brain to process it further? Yes, I called it the "vibration/sound" because, till the brain completely processes it completely, we cannot identify what it is.

Then the following happens, as explained on brainfacts.org:

The next stop for sound processing is the thalamus. Located just above the brainstem, the thalamus is the brain’s relay station for incoming sensory information. Then the information travels to the auditory part of the cerebral cortex.
The brainstem and thalamus use the information from both ears to compute a sound’s direction and location. In the primary auditory cortex different auditory neurons respond to different frequencies, which maintains the frequency map generated by the hair cells. Some cortical neurons respond to sound qualities including intensity, duration, or a change in frequency, while others are selective for complex sounds. Still others specialize in various combinations of tones. At higher levels in the brain, neurons can process harmony, rhythm, and melody. These neurons combine the different types of auditory information so you can recognize a voice or instrument.

I don't think anyone has any instrument to test how person A perceives the same sound compared to person B. As far as I have read and understood - brain is a super complex organ. I believe the scientists community thinks that we hardly know how a brain functions (completely). Of course, the ASR community who mention their PhD, BEEE, MSc, position at Microsoft, etc probably know how brain works like the back of their hand. Unfortunately not many humans are as enlightened as these ASR souls.

I guess I've just been diagnosed as insane ;-)

Your conclusion, not mine 🙂

And that phrase was from the deleted original thread. I cannot forget that - because it reflected arrogance. He also mentioned that he was the head of some department in Microsoft. And I read it on other threads as well, which seems to be his "go to" line when someone does not agree with him. So what?! Does not mean he understands everything.

How much do you expect to gain from that?

You did not discuss about my point on how the sound travels through our ears canals, to the cochlea and finally to the brain which analyzes it - which we define as music or sound. Now if you could explain that process and how it is similar in all human beings - we all will stand to gain a lot. Please go ahead with your explanation - I am all ears.

Just like we know that while sight varies among humans, no one is seeing X-rays!

As usual, you science guys always go to the extreme. Looks like life for you is digital - 0 or 1. Based on your "vision" example, look up "Veronica Seider" and her Guinness Book record. She was a normal human having super-eye. Normal eyes have visual acuity of 20/20 while Veronica’s acuity was around 20/2. She could easily distinguish people from as far as 1 mile. And before you call out, below is the link from Fact or Hoax

Veronica Seider

My point is - many people struggle at 20 feet with average vision. And yet there are individuals who have this extraordinary ability. So think about it - from 20 feet (should be 10 feet or less for people with real eye issues) to 1 mile is the variation when it comes to sight. Before you say - that is only one person - I would say - the earth's population is appox 8 Billion. And not every single person is aware of Guinness records or has time or inclination to come out with what their vision is, etc etc.

So us normal being are saying that no humans can do bat hearing. We agree with the super minds at ASR. But how difficult is it for the super intelligent beings at ASR to understand that there are people whose hearing could be so much better than people who cannot hear the difference in sound quality. You cannot measure this variation because there is currently no instrument to measure it.

No one is denying the research that Floyd Toole, Sean Olive and others have done. Does advancement in science stop there? We cannot be blind to the fact that as humans progress more research will discover things that we currently do not know. Current state-of-the-art will probably be stale in a few decades. That is the whole gist about being scientific - understand the "how to" and advance.In that sense this forum seems to be open minded about future possibility, while the scientific community seems to be harp on the notion that all that is to know about human hearing is researched and everyone is on par no more,no less.

It amuses me that in every debate you guys state about "X-ray vision" or "bat hearing". Need to get real.

He is going to light it up here before all said and done

@thyname , you are so right. And he keeps forgetting to take his medication🙄