What are you using for tubes in the line stage of the SP10? FWIW high gain is "normal" and reducing the gain by 12db with the switch on front only reduces the input (source) by 12db, not the output from the line stage. This pre amp should not sound bright if your other components are properly matched and set up. Is your amp contributing, i.e. what kind of tubes, small and large? You might be able to change the tone there as well. How are your speakers set up - are they optomized, especially the deadening of the 1st reflection points? Is this set up only too bright with the Shandling? How about tuner and TT? or other CDP?. Perhaps that's your issue. Have you listened to it in other neutral systems. Just some food for thought........... |
Jafox, FWIW I got so frustrated trying to use RAM sourced tubes in my SP10 I dammed near sold it - noisy, short lived, and not all that transparent. Then they tore down the Berlin wall and we were able to get eastern European tubes at last. I don't think the line stage is all that bad (then or now) if you put some LN, sturdy 6922's in it. I use NOS 6h23s or NOS Sovteks which to some may be coolish, but the gain in clarity is well worth the effort. I pick up a bit of compensating warmth with the drivers in my amps. By the way, I agree that this pre amp is wasted when used only as a line stage. :-) |
Where to start :-). 1st, relax about what jafox said - he was addressing the comment to someone with very high level expectations in an advanced system/setup. That SP10 is a far better pre-amp than many new ones sold today and the phono stage is still world class.
You have good ears...if you can tell the difference between the high and low gain stages. My compliments. The low gain stage should be slighly (!) less transparent, you are putting an attenuator in the signal path of the source (Shanling in this case). ARS is the name of the tube retailer, it is not the name of the manufacturer. You will have to gently pull one of the tubes from its socket - you will then find on the tube the manufacturer's name.
Before you start doing a micro exam of tubes etc, I would suggest that you make sure that your speakers are set up to their best advantage - to do that you must have an understanding of their radiation pattern - some speakers are meant to be pointed straight ahead - to listen to them pointed at your listening position will make them sound very aggressive and bright. Such speakers have a wide radiation pattern and will bounce sound off the wall (ceiling & floors) which you refer to as the 1st reflection points - these points must be deadened or the reflected sound will hit your ears mili seconds after the direct sound from the speaker - this will increase the apparent amplitude of the highs and muddy up the direct signal. Since you are dealing with high frequency signals you can usually deaden this area by using heavy wall hangings, book cases, etc - most anything that absorbs sound. As a temporary test, just hang some heavy wool blankets on the walls adjacent to and slightly ahead of your speakers. Also make sure that you have some type of deadening materiel on the floor (carpet/rugs). I have also had a lot of success in small rooms crossing these types of speakers so that the axis' cross well in front of you, at about the same relative angle to your listening position as they are when pointed straight ahead.
Once you have done that, then I would suggest that you become very logical in your approach to solving your problem. I would start with the CDP (which I suspect may really be the problem). Listen to other sources, the better the quality, the better the test. Listen to the Shanling in some ones else system if your can and see how it compares. If you rule out the Shanling as being a problem then you can go to the next step - FWIW, this pre-amp is not euphonic but it is not(!) inherrently bright. Its like an old Ferrari - its still very capable of very high performance if set up and maintained properly but its not one that you would want to just drive about town and to the grocery store.......Hope this helps and feel free to ask more questions, we all want to help. |
Bluefin, FWIW, contrary to your common misconception, the high/low setting switch on the SP10 does NOT attenuate the gain from the line stage as seen by the amp, it reduces the gain from the source(s) as seen by the line stage amp by 12db. In the SP10 the line stage gain remains 26db whether the switch is in its high or low setting. This is not typical of many pre amps which do allow attenuation of the preamp gain itself. And as an aside, personally, I would not want an attenuator between my line stage and my amp, semi purist that I am! :-) |
Turn it off at the end of each day when you are thru listening. The SP10 has a very gentle warm up phase and the tubes don't suffer much from turn on trauma.
Linnlp12, you won't get much argument from me, except we differ on tube preference a tad. I've been using mine for over 20 years - warts and all, its still my favorite pre-amp. |
The by pass switch is used in conjunction with the phono section - it allows for the phono section to bypass all of the controls on the preamp (except volume) and take the signal straight to the line amp section. By the way, I have not heard of a tube manufacturer known as ARS. FWIW, tubes used in military applications are typically more rugged tubes, but not necessarily better sonically. To further your basic knowledge of tubes, I would suggest that you visit another audio forum, Audio Asylum, go to their FAQ's and read Joe's Tube Lore. Its a great primer. |
Jafox, I have absolutely no argument with your anaylsis of the relative merits of these pre-amps. If I were in the market today for a better line stage the LS5 would be at the top of my list. Don't laugh too much, but I find that my little EAR834L (used in a seperate system) gives the SP10 some pretty stiff competition, sonically speaking and it sure is cheap to tube and play with. I don't have any illusions, but I do have a turntable and large LP collection which I enjoy. CD's for me have mostly musical value but I've never seen them as a source for any kind of sonic wonderment. Like a faithful spouse, its just hard to part with this unit which has served me so well(I've had it since the mid 80's) just become some young chick comes alone. :-) By the way, how would you like to have started your system out with an SP10 and the 125? Think of all the bucks you would have saved trying and trading equipment just to get to that point. Her ex did her a real favor if she is at all interested in what is possible..... |
I'm sure you've figured this out, but the axis of the speaker is on a line perpendicular from the face of the speaker. On axis the speaker would be facing you. Crossing the axis of the speakers in front of you has the principle befit of reducing sidewall reflections and still allowing you to have wide separation and sound stage in a small room. Re height of the speaker - Ideally you want the tweeter height to be level with your ear height, so if your tweeter is 33" off the floor thats where your ear should be. If the tweeter is higher in the speaker than your ears,sit on pillows :-). Re the effect of stands, other than to put the tweeter at ear level...If the manufacturer recommends 6" stands they have probably mounted the woofer so that it works in conjuction with the floor to produce the smoothest upper bass. When you start raising the speaker higher you are going to change this and produce a upper bass suck out. When you lower it you can produce a peak in the same area. I would suggest, for the purposes of getting the best bass response that you invest a couple of bucks in a Radio Shack sound level meter and a test disc with test tones (see the Rives site) - you will learn a lot about speaker set up including positioning of the listening position as well as speakers. Remember, to a lot of us this is a Hobby as well as having access to great music and sound. My moniker is a just a reminder to me about humility - I'm also into flagellation, when all else fails :-). Don't fear moving the speakers about 'til it comes together...every room is different and fractions of inches, ultimately can make a real difference. What you will hear when you really get it right is not only width and height of sound stage, but a depth of image and the sonic illusion of seeing stars on a dark night out in the deep country side. TAKE YOUR TIME, if it were simple it wouldn't be a good hobby. |
If you are hearing crackling/hissing without touching the dials it is not likely that it is the contacts in the volume or balance controls. If you hear it more when the amp is first turned on and it diminishes as time passes, like 30 minutes or so, you likely have noisy/dying tubes. Since it is restricted to the left channel - here is how to test it: turn it off til the tubes cool down. Remove the top. On the left side remove the front two tubes and reverse them. Turn the amp back on and see if the sound is now coming from the right channel. If not, turn it off and let it cool down. Remove the rear two tubes and reverse them and turn it back on. If the problem remains in the left channel its not the tubes. You don't need to change the tubes back. Now with the unit on, rotate both the volume knob and the balance knob (not at the same time) and see if you hear any noise - if you do then the contacts in the controls should be cleaned (by a technician) but you can usually remove the corrosion to a great extent by just rotating the dials completely for a minute or so. The friction from the contact will cleam them up. Now the killer answer - dying tubes and corroded contacts really shouldn't cause brightness, and in both channels - to the contrary, dying tubes usually cause dullness, noisy perhaps, but dull never the less. Have you read all of the reviews and user comments here and on Audio Asylum yet on your Shanling? Yeh, I know, it looks pretty - I'm waiting for the tiny space ship to land any day now. :-) |
You've got to get a wee can of penetrating oil at the local hardware store. Put a drop on each screw and the little green men will back off and let you inside that SP10. Whats life without a few challenges. :-) |
