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Audio Research discontinuing lower lines components?

I have looked at several components in Audio Research's line and they are discontinuing the LS17-se, PH8, and PH6.  They discontinued the DAC 8.  I know there is a new Ref 6 to replace the Ref 5se and their is a new Ref Phono 3 to replace the Ref Phone 2se coming out.  I talked to my dealer and he stated that Audio Research seems to be making their components look more McIntosh like in the Galeo series. 

The dealer stated their isn't going to be anything that he has heard that will replace the other lines at this point and that AR will be starting at the LS-27, which is $7500 for preamps.  The Ref 75se is the beginning of the line for Amps, which I know, but man are they going the Mac route with prices, nothing to replace the DAC 8 and the other DAC in the line is $11,000, what's up with this, have you guys heard anything more. 

The starting point for AR equipment is getting pretty high and the only way a newer person without means will be able to afford it will be to buy use, which could send the used prices up if there isn't anything else in the line.  What do you guys think and what have you heard?
sid1

Showing 8 responses by jmcgrogan2

jmcgrogan2's avatar
jmcgrogan2
6,346 posts
 
labtec is right, there is no sense in bashing ARC, they are simply the messenger. Sure, their top of the line preamp lists for 3X the price of their top preamp 8 years ago, but look around, just about every other audio company has done the same thing in the last 8-10 years.

As schubert pointed out, this is about income inequality, not about ARC.
ARC is just doing what their customers demand. Their customer base wants to spend more money, so ARC will oblige and take more money. No different than what the other high end companies are doing.

Why would any of these fine high end companies wish to compete with the booming Chinese market of products? There is no future there.

It's not personal.....it's just business.
jmcgrogan2's avatar
jmcgrogan2
6,346 posts
 
Audio Research is subject to inflationary pressures just like any other firm, or private person. Smoke and mirrors guys ... smoke and mirrors.

C’mon now oregonpapa, you can’t blame all of this on inflation. ARC’s prices have gone up 200% in the last 7 years. In 2008 the Ref 3 was the top of the line preamp at $10K. Today the top preamp is $30K.
Yes, the dollar has weakened, but not by that much. That is a 200% increase.

I know other audio manufacturers have followed the same path, but most outside of the audio industry are not raising prices 200% over 7 years, not even in education (which is out of control as well).

You can maybe blame 30-40% on inflation, the other 160-170% is on the redistribution of wealth, and the companies that cater to the elitism.
jmcgrogan2's avatar
jmcgrogan2
6,346 posts
 
oregonpapa, top of the line is top of the line, don't let model numbers confuse you.
2008 ARC's most expensive line preamp was $10K.
Today, ARC's most expensive line preamp is $30K.
Forget the names, just look at the cost.
jmcgrogan2's avatar
jmcgrogan2
6,346 posts
 
oregonpapa, no need to be so defensive for ARC. We all know that you love ARC.

As I mentioned in my first post, ALL high end companies are following this business model. Perhaps due to the lesser numbers of audiophiles, and the lack of desire to compete with Chinese products, but all high end companies are spiraling upwards at an alarming rate.
Nordost came out with Odin line, Tara Labs released all their Grandmaster stuff, even my favorite company, VAC, released their Statement line with ridiculous pricing.

I don’t blame the high end market, why shoot the messenger? It is the economy that is driving them to change their business model. Adapt to what the market demands. The market obviously wants to spend a lot more money on gear these days.
It is NOT a simple matter of inflation though.
jmcgrogan2's avatar
jmcgrogan2
6,346 posts
 
Wow! Look at all the removed posts! My last post was deleted!

Heavy moderation here, must be someone throwing some money Audiogon's way to make things look as they wish.

oregonpapa, you had any of your posts deleted? I doubt it.
Maybe ARC is on the case. Time to make this thread disappear.
jmcgrogan2's avatar
jmcgrogan2
6,346 posts
 
You are comparing the price of a REF-3 to the REF-30? Ha ... that's not a fair comparison. The 2008 price of a REF-3 needs to be compared to the price of a new REF-6.

Why? Why is it not fair? Look, this is simple, not complicated. Throw out all of the model names that have inundated the market in the last 8 years and ask two simple questions.

1) How much did ARC's most expensive preamp sell for in 2008? (A:$10K)
2) How much does ARC's most expensive preamp sell for today? (A:$30K)

All the rest is BS. You can't do this, you can't do that. Why not?

Again, I am not bashing ARC here. ALL high end manufacturers have followed this route. My favorite manufacturer, VAC, even released an uber-expensive Statement line a couple years back with a $50K preamp.
I would not expect that to not be compared to their top price preamp of 8 years ago, which sold for around $15K.

Most expensive =  most expensive. All the rest is glitter and distraction.
Try to focus on the bottom line, the price it takes to buy the best.

The high end companies themselves are not to blame, don't shoot the messenger. They are just following the lead of the market. In essence, they are simply doing what they are being told to do, create more expensive gear.
jmcgrogan2's avatar
jmcgrogan2
6,346 posts
 
oregonpapa,

Poor choices for an analogy, since in 2008 both the Corvette and the 911 twin turbo were part of the Chevrolet and Porsche lines respectively, and were more expensive than a sedan and the Boxster back then too.
.
I don’t believe at any point in time that a top family sedan was the most expensive Chevy, or a Boxster was the most expensive Porsche.

I don’t understand how you ARC fans cannot understand "most expensive model". Don’t even mention any model numbers at all. Just most expensive preamp, or amp. It’s so simple, how can you not see it???

Stop being so defensive, and just open your eyes. Again, I say that this is not ARC alone, everyone is doing it.

Can I not compare Nordost Odin cables to Nordost Valhalla cables because it is not a fair comparison, because Odin is in a different league? They are both cables.

Can I not compare the VAC Statement preamp to the VAC Renaissance MK. II Signature because the Statement is in another league? They are both preamplifiers.

Is it unfair to compare Tara Labs new Grandmaster Evolution cables to the Zero Gold series? They are both cables.
jmcgrogan2's avatar
jmcgrogan2
6,346 posts
 
@minorl , why are you talking about Acoustic Research?
This thread is about Audio Research Corporation. 

Once again, ARC and AR are two very different companies.
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