Audio Desk Systeme - Vinyl Cleaner – Repair of Water Pump Failure

I have a similar problem with my Pro model where it is pumping but only fills halfway.  (~30mm). Has anyone encountered this and if so is the pump going or is there a technique to get it filling properly?

TIA.

Mark

There appears to be a white insert in the output of the pump as viewed from the top. Does the water pass through this as its porous or does it move? Is it part of the unit or the pump itself?

Thanks,

Mark

After receiving the pictures, I can see that it is the ultrasonic generator and that the water fills up through the edges. My pump has stopped so it’s now time for surgery.  

In reviewing the specifications of the pumps being recommended, I’ve noted something that no one has mentioned and may be the cause of failures. These pumps are specified to have a maximum duty cycle of either 15 or 30mins with a like cooling period after. Now this is NOT mentioned in any of the Audio Desk documentation and if you are doing a batch of records where you do a 5min wash cycle and a 1 min dry cycle, this will obvious cause long term issues if you don’t pause for a time after every third record.

One could make the argument that a continuous flow pump should have been spec’d, but given it wasn’t, this tip may allow others to get more life out of their machines. 

For those interested here is a link to the Comet Elegant 24v pump data sheet that has been referenced: https://www.comet-pumpen.de/fileadmin/pdf/pumpen_datenblaetter/24v/Datenblatt_ELEGANT_24V_1305.79.00...

Note that it states “continuous operation possible”; HOWEVER, its rated lifetime at 24v is only up to 500 hours. 

@decibell, thanks for the response and pictures. I don't believe the pump stops during the wash cycle for 3 reasons. First, the filter in the rear doesn't have a purpose if the water is not continuously circulating. Second, there is no cover that blocks the water from flowing back through the pump when the rollers come together if the pump were to stop. Finally, there is no water level control as the overall quantity decreases if it is not continuously circulating via the filter trough.

I have also examined my motor carefully and while there was "gunk" at the bottom of the tank, the impeller was very clean which make sense as water is flowing through it and it is sealed very well. Assuming a brushless design, the typical failure would be from overheating as my impeller freely turns.

@oldsalt

Leaking from the fan cover sounds like it is overfilled. The float has a embedded magnet on the non-seamed side and there appears to be a magnetic sensor in the white rod hanging from the top of the float cylinder. Therefore the float will not go all the way to the top so you should not fill it above where you can still see the water level. Also make sure the machine is level.

This is a pump which is designed to work submerged which would benefit from water cooling. In this design, it is not submerged 90% of the time it is running. Therefore, it is prudent to allow a cooling period every few records if doing extended cleaning. My motor failed without any evidence of bearing failure and showed a 120K ohm resistance which tells me there was an electrical failure most likely thermal in nature. Replacement motor measured 28 ohms. I stand by my concern about premature failure due to duty cycle and believe this recommendation will allow the motor to reach its full specified lifetime.

Yes, I noted that; however, that says nothing about longevity. There are 24v submersible pumps spec’d at 20k hours which seem more appropriate for a $4k machine that is sealed. 

I have completed my pump replacement and in the spirit of this thread would like to contribute back some tips and advice. First, thanks go the @decibell and @fred_s for their contributions that were of great assistance!

To begin, I have the Pro version; however, I do not believe any of this advice changes across the other versions. I experienced a pump failure after about 300 records mostly washed for 5min cycles and I started with a used machine that was claimed to have washed less than 200 records. This cannot be confirmed but in my case, I have installed a digital counter that I use to keep track of my use.

TROUBLESHOOTING
If your pump stops working, it can be for one of 3 causes:
1. The pump is not getting 24v,
2. The pump is electrically shorted or open,
3. The pump is jammed or physically stuck.

Now the first two can be checked without any disassembly except for 4 screws to remove the control panel as seen in this picture:
https://imgur.com/S7KfXK7.

To test for #1, use a multimeter set on DC Volts and measure across the Red/Black or Blue/Brown wires with them still plugged in and the machine starting its wash cycle. You can insert probe tips between the square release buttons and the inserted connector. If you get 24v DC then you know the board is doing the right thing.

To test for #2, unplug the machine and using the tip of your probe remove one of the pump wires by pressing it on the associated square button. Then change your meter setting to Ohms and measure between the free connector and the still attached one. You should see a reading between 20 and 100 ohms. In my case it was >100K ohms indicating that the pump had electrically failed. It is also possible you will read <1 ohms which indicates a short. In both cases the pump heeds replacing.

For #3 there is a possibility that this can be handled externally depending on the pump style installed. The intake of the pump is on the same side as the drain hole. If you have a pump that has its impeller on the bottom such as this Comet one: https://imgur.com/WExNAOb, then you may be able to clean it out using a small bottle brush working it under the raised intake. On the other hand, if you have a pump like this: https://imgur.com/J3uTwTw, (which I had) this is not likely to work as it needs to be disassembled to get to the impeller.

PUMP REPLACEMENT
I used the same technique that was described in this thread. Note that the glue holding the bottom of my unit was not flexible, and I needed a stiff putty knife whose blade was part of the handle so that I could use a hammer/mallet to break through the bonds.

Once I had the bottom cut open, I noticed a significant accumulation of gunk on it. This informed me that as part of my change water task, I should use a drain-hole inserted brush to keep this from building up.

The Comet pump I used was the one in the picture above as I could not find a replacement for the original one and it had no identifiable markings. I feel its important not to use one whose flow is too great for two reasons. First, it may pull too much current which could cause the driver circuit to fail on the board. Second, its important that the pump rate is not so great that it evacuates the water quicker than it can be returned via the filter. Therefore 10 l/m appears to be a good target.

To connect the pump I cut about an inch off the existing hose which allowed the pump to be mount vertically and attach to the side with DAP Gutter Sealant. I was not able to source the specialized connectors so I soldered a splice of the original ones as you see in the first picture. Make sure the colors align.

To re-glue the tank bottom, I used a marine 2-part epoxy which has great fill properties and allowed for sanding https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000BO0YQU?th=1. Finally, I used the sealant to attach the bottom plate.

OPERATIONAL TIPS
Having gone through this experience and now fully understanding how this machine works, I am modifying my use of it as follows:

1. Recognizing that the pump runs the entire washing cycle time, I am ensuring that I keep to a 50% duty cycle. during any 30 minute session.

2. I pay particular attention to not overfilling as the underside is not totally sealed. For example, the fan wiring holes are open to liquid.

3. When changing the water, I will also do a brush out of the bottom as preventative maintenance.

I hope the above is found useful.

As an update, my original “pro” pump is from China as ZKSJ DC40A-2440 and supposedly is rated for 30K hours. It does have a ceramic shaft, but mine never came close to that figure. I have only been able to find the 2460 model in individual quantities and the current draw is 1.2A versus .65 as well as rate is 13 l/m versus 10 l/m. Without seeing the circuit diagram I would not be comfortable doubling the current. This pump is OEM’d by many brands but if someone finds a source for single purchase it would be great if you could post it.

One further item regarding this black pump. It is not self-priming. So give that its impeller is not near the bottom as on the other pumps, you need to make sure that there is at least 2” of water in the tank for it to start pumping. Now presumedly the low water level interlock triggered by the float distance will prevent it from starting but its worth noting anyway.

After reviewing the procedure I used to change the pump, there are a couple of thinks I would do differently than described here that I thought I'd share.

When marking the bottom for the cut, instead of using a marker, I would start by first lightly scoring the 4 lines using a razor knife and straightedge. At the 4 corners, I would then drill a 3mm (1/8") hole to define the line ends. Finally I would heavily score the lines in order to create a positive groove to follow with a cut-off wheel or end-cutter tool. This would leave a cleaner cut with protection from going too far to the sides.

The other is that I was uncomfortable in having to totally reassemble and seal the unit to be able to test it especially if I am not using the OEM pump. Once the pump is installed, the unit can be temporarily tested by placing in on a structural foam board or dense foam pad placed in a dish pan/washing tray which can hold at least 2 gals (8 l) and weighted down or clamped with bar clamps. This will allow it to be filled with minimal leakage yet still be able to have the power cord safely attached to test. Once the test is completed, simply unplugging and lifting the unit drains it with the advantage of getting rid of any left over cuttings or debris. This technique would let me test more than one pump with minimal setup.

I had looked at this pump but was concerned it had too much throughput. Glad to hear it works fine as the price is great.