Atma-Sphere MA-1 amps

Hello Jtwrace,

Please remember what I'm about to tell you in my post is just my opinion and nothing more. It doesn't mean it's true to anyone else besides me, but it is honest, sincere, and the way I hear it. I was waiting to post hoping that someone else would mention what I hear so I wouldn't be the first to have a negative comment about these extraordinary amps. From the many positive comments of all the people who have posted I don't think at this point that is going to happen. Another caveat to consider from my post is that I most definitely have a hearing impairment from 35 years or so of working as a musician. My comments are made with all due respect to my friends who have posted to this thread and to Ralph.

I myself came extremely close to a purchase of Atma-Sphere MA-2 amps to feed my Avalon Eidolon Diamonds. I was privileged and fortunate enough to hear these amps 5 different times at length, once on the standard Eidolon which were my previous speakers, and four separate times on the Diamonds. I was assured that the amps were totally broken-in so I feel it is reasonable to rule out that as a factor and also because the problem for me was exactly the same to various degrees each and every time I heard them. For me, what they did so very very well almost caused me to buy a pair of MA-2's. This is why I feel it is important to post opinion. It was only until the last two times of hearing the Atma that I decided I wouldn't be able to get past the problem I was having, and in the long run the problem would become fatiguing for me.

First the positive .... this is actually an understatement. In this specific way the Atma-Sphere MA-2 ( latest and greatest version ) rendered the most realistic sense of transparency I've ever heard from an amp .... period! The openness and air of the sound-stage the detail, simply magic. WOW!!! The only other OTL amp I heard before the Atma was the Tenor 75 watter. The Tenor had this same quality but not to the same degree. The sound-space wasn't quite as open and airy, however texture density I felt was a little more truthful. Textures were IMO more full bodied and harmonically complex with the Tenor OTL.

OK, here it goes ............. the flaw I felt I just wouldn't be able to get past was the longer and more times I listened to these amps I became increasingly aware of an unnatural band of frequencies in the treble. Certain notes in the upper registers on piano, vibes, and violins for instance had a bite, almost like an overshoot of attack, kind of like the amp was trying too hard to sound fast in the high end. I'm sorry to say that for me the more I listened the more I was made aware of the fact I would not be able to get past this character in the long haul. I heard a parallel to the Martin Logan CLS 2Z speakers I used to own. Some of you may know first hand or read this about the CLS, in certain ways they were undeniably more transparent than other speakers, so transparent in fact the images were a little ghost like needing a little more IMO texture density to sound real. But the big problem was, because of the taxing load it put on amps paired with it, the upper frequencies had a glare and bite to it that on certain notes would be like looking directly into sun.

Again, my post is just my take. It is not meant in anyway to be disrespectful to the other poster's opinions giving here and I can certainly hear and understand why many people would choose the Atma-Sphere amps, the strengths they posses are so compelling. This is a sizable investment and I felt my opinion may be of help. I wish you all the luck in finding the right amp for you

Best,

Tom

Hello Rush,

I'm afraid I don't know the brand of the 6sn7 tubes that were in the other 2 pairs of MA-2 amps that I heard. I imagine it was the stock 6sn7 that were supplied with the amps from the factory.

Rush, I heard far less of this treble abbreviation in your system then the other two systems I heard with the Atma/Diamond combo. This is before you had your amps brought up to to the latest version. If I'm correct, the latest upgrade included the new caps. I have a sneaking suspicion that the new caps are responsible for the sound I'm trying to describe. To me it's ironic that I think the caps are also what gives the sound this tremendous sense of openness. It would be interesting to hear from others if they feel the flaw I can't seem to get past is innate to the new caps.

Rush, I also remember you and Ann having issues when you first made the upgrade. Do you feel these issues have completely dissipated over time with break-in? Or is there still some remnants of those reservations remaining? Thanks so much for your candor. Maybe a learning experience can come from this discussion.

As always - your friend,
Tom

Rush, I could be wrong but I strongly suspect that for me the unnatural treble characteristics and slight thinness in tonal textures that I hear can be attributed to the V-cap, no matter how long they break in. I'm learning time after time there is always a trade-off, a decision to made, from both the design stand point and for us as consumers even at this extreme level.

I think there may be a price to be paid for the gains that this cap has made to the performance of the Atma-Sphere amps. Again this is only my opinion, and being that the virtues of the Atma-Sphere amps are so plainly obvious I strongly encourage others interested to audition so they may deduce their own conclusions.

Best to all,
Tom

Hello Tim,

Thanks for the contribution and insightful comments to this thread. Is it possible for you to characterise your experience with the Atma amps before, during (break-in) and after when the sound finally settled?

IMO I do hear the Atma amps as sounding a little less dense in texture than what I would consider ideal or neutral.

Best,
Tom

Hello Pubul57,

My observations are made only about the Atma-Sphere MA-2 amps as I have not heard any of their preamps.

The reason why I wouldn't want a component that adds pleasant distortions is .... in my experience I find they mask other timbrel/textural subtleties at the frequencies being distorted as well as the frequencies just below and above. Any added coloration will get in the way of hearing the actual musical intent of the recording in question.

Where I feel most audiophiles disagree is deciding which aspect of accurate reproduction is most important. Some will say "dynamic linearity above all else" I don't think you'll find this audiophile with a Quad 57. But few would argue about a Quad 57's tonal accuracy. Much of this will be determined by the type of music one listens to. A person who listens to small jazz ensembles will have different needs then someone who listens to big orchestral works.

For me, I'm striving for a balance of all sonic virtues with no area severely lacking. In the long term I find this seems to be the most musically satisfying and sensible approach. From my experience there is no product that's best at everything.

Enjoy,
Tom

Hello Detlof,

Thanks for the kind and respectful response. It's nice to be able to discuss the audible differences we discern in components, agree or disagree, still have fun and learn from each others experience. BTW ... Hilary Hahn smokes!!!

I haven't heard it myself yet, but from what I know the Sound Lab/Atma-Sphere combo is becoming classic. I'm sure your system must sound fantastic.

Detlof, a live recording of a piano with a close up perspective may give you the best chance of experiencing what I heard. Something like a small jazz ensemble, recorded in a intimate night club played back at a "live" playback level. In particular, listen to the attack of piano notes about 2 and a half octaves above middle C and up. What I heard (at least) was a unnatural sharpness, glare, zippity-zing if you will on the attack of those notes. The sustained note also sounded too thin and glassy to me. I started to hear this treble abbreviation on a variety of instruments and recordings I'm familiar with.

Another thing I try to listen for is the density of timbre/texture as a sustained note gets louder. Take for instance, a tenor sax player who plays one sustained note, he starts the note out at a medium volume and increases it to a loud volume. The note doesn't just get louder, the density of the texture also becomes more vibrant and more harmonically complex, it fills with ebullient energy. To me, some other amps convey this sensation with more conviction.

Tim, I want to thank you also for sharing your experience. Who knows? Maybe it was still a break-in issue with the V-cap after all. Much of what you described about the V-cap break-in mirrors my experience. I think too many variables are at play here to know for certain.

Enjoy,
Tom

Hello Lewm,

Thanks for the research and posting a response. I'm sorry if you got the impression from this thread that I own the Atma's. To be clear, I do not. I came awfully close though!

However, I was fortunate enough to have spent time hearing the MA-2 with the speakers I own and speakers I previous owned in three different systems for a total of 5 lengthy listening sessions. Thankfully I was able to get over the things I thought they did so well and hear IMO what did not jive to my ears.

When I talked on the phone with Ralph he mentioned to me that there were many Eidolon-Eidolon Diamond/MA-2 users in the field. I don't know for certain, but I didn't get the impression from talking with him that any of them were using the Zeros. If this helps, the MA-2's amps were able to drive the Eidolon Diamond to extreme volume levels without signs that the amps were running out of gas. Also, it might be of help to know I heard the IMHO texture thinness and treble abbreviations at low or loud volumes. But from the little technical knowledge I have of OTL's, tonal abbreviation is independent of volume. In other words, if the speaker in question is not a good match for an OTL, tonal coloration will be apparent at all volume levels. Is this correct?

I would like to point out once again I think the Atma's are in certain ways .... "extraordinary" .... exceeding the competition. I also encourage others to audition them to hear the certain areas of cutting edge performance I feel Ralph has achieved with his design.

Having lived and learned over the years from owning five different sets of electrostatics from Acoustat, Quad, and Martin-Logan, these also in certain ways were ....extraordinary.... and in my view, above, exceeding that of the competition. But they also lacked in certain ways, and for me in the long run their faults took away the enjoyment, that magic, the escape, the thrill of being fooled if only for a second that this could be real. Through my experience and from the mistakes I felt I've made, I have learned a balanced approach of choosing all components is what has endured for me.

Best to all,
Tom

Hi Detlof,

Glad to hear and that you are enjoying music!

Best,
Tom