Atma-Sphere M60 or David Berning ZH270?

Hi, Tom:

Thanks for the response. I may have already made the decision but just want to hear opinions from product owners and have final check in case I miss something. I haven't heard either one before and spending close to $5k makes me a bit nervous.

Thanks again.

Hi, Spencer,

You opinion really help. It gives me more solid affirmation for my thinking. Regarding the combination of Coincedent + M60, I thought Israel voices his speakers on Atma-Sphere especially M60 Mk2, maybe I remembered wrong...

Thanks again.

Swampwalker & Audiokinesis,

Thanks for the input. It appears personal taste do invole in the decision of choosing hi-end component based on sound even for an amplifier which supposes to just amplify singals.

Audiokinesis, interesting point:

"Note that you can also run the Atma-Spheres with less than the full tube complement, reducing the heat output and still sounding excellent"

Does this mean I can use 4 output tubes per channel and get half of the power? Does it applies other Tube amps as well?

Again thanks for input.

1markr, Rushton, Artg, and Tubegroover:

Thanks. With your guys and so many others assurance, I am really looking forward to it (for sometime in March arrival). I hope I will be able to concentrate on the "music" instead of "sound" and "equipments".

Tubegroover:

I have added the internal silver wire upgrade already if this is what you are referring to. The Cryoed tubes and cap upgrade are included in the base price.

Thanks again.

Thanks guys. Your advices really helps!!

Swampwalker writes:

"The best way to explain it in terms of your musical tastes (forgive me if I'm way off base, I said I'm no classical fan) is just different readings of the same score, or different character of 2 different, great old violins"

Very good analogy, indeed. As a violin player and 1/2 piano player (I am a amateur though I have attended local chamber ensemable), I know exactly how a violin (though not Stradivarius class) and piano should sound in my room. I can never reproduce the instruments sound in my room with my stereo system. The resonant quality of the sound of a violin just isn't there. I hear more like sound of hi-fi than a real instrument. But different makers of violin do make difference from my mi-fi system. The distinctive sweetness of "Amati" and pure transparancy of Stradivarius can be clearly identified. So Amati as Atma vs. Stradivarius as Bernings (no judgement here of quality just different sound, actually I like both instruments sound depending on what music is played). Regard to "different readings of the same score", are you refering to Bernstein vs. Karajan, Yo-Yo Ma vs. Rostropovich, or Janet Baker vs. Christa Ludwig? This sounds more like "interpretation" to me and after all, Hi Fi, in my opinion, is an art of reproduction not interpretation. But I like your analogy anyway.

Nealhood & Rushton:

What a nice photo! I like it a bit more than the current version of the M60 II.3 and actually I like their old chasis better than the new. The connectors and speaker post are still on the front that makes connection a bit awkward and WAF is low (at least my wife isn't thrill about it). The Atma's may sound fantastic but to me it looks more like a labs equipment than consumer product. In my humble opinion, their products really need a good industrial designer (like Pass Labs XA and X.5 series stuffs). From looking at the photos of Berning, it's also just plain looking as well. "Sound" is the utmost important priority but be sure you can look at it everyday and can live with for a long time.

Trelia writes:

"But, as Spencer pointed out, with my Coincidents, which are incidentally warmer and more full bodied than any other pair you will find out there, the OTL sound does not seem to suit them as well."

I may misunderstand your point, but does "your Coincident" any different than mine? Did you have mod one them? Or are you referring to other brands of speaker?

Also another question for you: does Israel chooses Transformer coupled amplifiers lately may just because there isn't many OTL on the market? Just a guess.

Oneprof:

When I taked to Allan, he only mentioned optional internal silver wiring upgrade. Any other upgrades out there?

Artg:

It sounds we have the similar concerns and reasons to choose Berning (though I haven't 100% decide to go with Berning yet, see below). Berning may not be perfect but it gets 95% things there without other headaches.

Sutts & Metralla:

Interesting. I also have a Welborne DRD 300B (8 watts) ultimate version and pairs with my SE III sounds great with solo and chamber music. It does run out of steam when Mahler is played. Currently, I interchange Welborne with a NAD C272. The NAD sounds good but not great. On music of Mahler, it clearly betters the Welborne in terms of dynamic which Mahler's music really shine. I even open to consideration for the new Pass Labs X.5 amplifier for orchestra music. I know, I know, solid state never gets the sound of tube, but does Berning really outclass Pass Labs in terms of dynamic, attack, smoothness, and transparency where modern symphonic works really need? Do I get 90% of the Berning if I choose Pass?

Hi, Gentlemen. Thanks a lot for your suggestions.

I have decided to try the Berning and enrolled me in Allan's waiting list. It seems both are good amplifiers. For my limitation, Berning is the only choice.

Bluebull,

Sure, I may write a paragraph or two for my initial impression after receiving the amp. Thanks for your input.

Mhu,

Congratulation and have fun for your new adventure. I've never thought about buying Joule Electra product simply because their OTL amps just too expensive for me. The price of Berning is already outside my initial budget limit. In fact I was initially looking for Atma-Sphere M60 in mid $3k and almost bought a pair but cancelled order because of my concerns listed above. Same reason (cost, heat and kids) for me not considering Israel's highly recommended Canary CA339 and DeHavilland GM 70 (both in $7k) though they may match my SE perfectly. I assume you have heard Joule with your Merlin at your home. If you do, how does it perform specifically in terms of music reproduction? The Joule’s OTL do looks gorgeous in comparison to either AS or Berning. I think if I own a Joule, I may concentrate too much on "visual pleasure" and be distracted from listening music - the potential penalty one has to pay (just kidding...).

Please share your impression of your new amp after you get it.

Hi, fellas:

I apologize for answering this thread late due to busy and laziness. Here are my impressions of the amplifier and Coincident SE:

I think they are very good synergy at least in my environment. I don’t have much experience with varieties of amplifiers to try, but so far I have been very impressed with the sound of this combination.

The Berning ZH-270 seems to possess strength from both world of solid state and tube amplifier without their weakness. To me, it seems to remove a veil between the sources and your ears. It’s clean and clear as those good solid state amps do yet retains the harmonic richness of a tube amp. It makes musical instruments more life-like and less artificial. The high frequencies are clean and smooth and the lows are ample without exaggeration. Listen to the opening movement of the symphony no 7 by Mahler (Tennsted/LPO/Angel LP). The sound of the tenor horn has body and weight yet rich and smooth and the sound clearly comes from right and rear corner of the orchestra. The mid are rich and smooth too as demonstrated on violin/fortepiano by Luca/Bilson playing the Mozart’s violin sonatas (Nonsuch LP). You can clearly hear the musicians breathing of beginning of a phrase as in Mozart B-flat string quartet (Amadeus/DGG LP) or breathing between movements/CD tracks of a piano sonata (Brendel’s Beethoven sonatas Philip CD). I can listen to ZH270 and Coincident SE for a long time without listening fatigue.

Again, I'm very impressed with these two combination.