Audiophiles don't visit casinos to gamble. They go to high end audio stores. |
"Now that working for a living doesn't cut it anymore the sure way to realize the American dream was buying that lotto ticket, going to the nearest casino, or driving slowly by that all night 7/11 wondering if you have it in you for that quick smash and grab."
You smash and grab jewelry stores, not 7/11's. 7/11's get knocked over. Didn't your family teach you anything growing up? |
"07-17-14: Goldeneraguy
I am an Atlantic City High School Alum.Pre the Gambling Era.
By 1960 A/C no longer had anything to offer.
It has even less now"
Not true at all. In AC they can serve alcohol until 6am. Its 2am for the rest of NJ and PA. |
"My guess is that the great resort city was superseded and rendered obsolete by the introduction of affordable air travel. No doubt New Jersey's notorious family enterprises managed to get gambling legalized so they could take advantage of cheap property values and a central location, between NYC and Philly, to create an East Coast Las Vegas. Apparently it worked for a time, until gambling spread everywhere and once again rendered Atlantic City obsolete. Maybe it will be revived again with legal prostitution or marijuana. Maybe they'll just have to settle for the Chris Christie Archives and Museum. Or a New Jersey Politicians Hall of Fame named for Hugh Addonizio."
It was a good idea, but they just put it in a very bad place. The city of AC was, and still is, as disaster. You have the hotels and the boardwalk, but that's it. Its not like Vegas where you can walk around and do stuff besides gambling. People are afraid to walk around in AC. |
"@Macrojack-No truer words could have been written about how money is made in the US. In most Asian countries, China to be specific, investment is carefully thought out to benefit the generations to come. Here investors are more concerned about the next quarterly report."
You guys just pick out the facts that you want and ignore the facts you don't like. Look at how money is made in China. The cost of pollution and keeping the environment clean, doesn't apply to them. They do whatever they want without restriction. Pollution is irrelevant. They don't recognize pattens or copyrights. The fact that almost all other countries do is also irrelevant. Lets not forget how they treat their people; like animals. How would you like to have a job in China? You don't get a 15 min break for every 4 hours you work like you do in the US. They do, however, have child labor laws that are pretty fair. They make sure every kid has a job.
Maybe you guys should go over there and see what its like first hand. Just be sure not to commit any crimes or your first hand may become your last hand. |
"Hey I'm the one who mentioned China so please don't bring Macrojack into your rant!"
Sorry. It looked like he was agreeing with you, so I thought the comment was fair.
"Perhaps you should learn more about US history in regards to industry building. Very nasty stuff before the work place became "civilized""
Maybe, but you were the one who brought up China and the US in a modern context. But since you bring up history, a lot has happened since the dawn of the industrial revolution. At least in the US. How long do think its going to take China to catch up with our standards? |
"07-19-14: Dreadhead
Trelja,
In my case I have every right to blame the economy, and I'm quite sure the current economy has taken its toll on the casual gambler as well. Don't sit on your high horse making statements about something you obviously know very little about, being forced to sell your system due to sixteen months of unemployment on top of which the Republican Party felt as of the first of the year I was not eligible for anymore governmental assistance. When you have to choose between paying your mortgage or having a high end system then get back to me about the current economy."
Sorry, but I have to agree with Trelja on that one. Sure you have the right to blame anyone for anything you like. (Assuming you live in a place like the US. You don't have that right in China.) But when it comes right down to it, you not having any money is your fault. There's plenty of money out there. If you want some, go get it. But to cry about not getting your full 99 weeks of unemployment and then blaming it on some political party, is simply pathetic. You sound like a little kid. |
"As Zd542 so ignorantly reminds us it's very easy to blame the victim."
Yes, but its easiest of all to play the victim.
"I am recently back to work and am starting to get back on my feet."
Good for you. If you were still on unemployment, you wouldn't have that new job. |
"07-23-14: Onhwy61
One of the great prevailing myths in American society is that poor people deserve to be poor and rich people deserve to be rich."
I've heard the saying, but one of out great prevailing myths? Where did you find that info?
"07-23-14: Czarivey
Onhwy61, It's true approximately 98%.
Poor pays higher interest rate, often higher tax, higher insurance and very often can't get a descent job."
Being poor does not mean you pay higher interest rates. Your credit rating determines that. Poor people that pay their bills, get low interest rates. Higher taxes? Other than a mistake, I don't see how that's possible. Higher insurance is also nonsense. First of all, charging someone higher insurance based on their income is illegal. Insurance is based on risk. If you have a good driving record, you get a low rate; even poor people. If you take good care of yourself, you get a lower health insurance rate. Jobs? Every well off person I know was poor at one time.
Do I have to continue? It just looks like you guys are picking things out just to argue over. Selecting only ideas and facts that just supports your argument just so you can win, does no one any good. If someone has a good work ethic and doesn't commit crimes, may have something to do with how successful they are. Wouldn't you agree? And if you do, why not include that in your posts, as well? |
"07-23-14: Onhwy61
Selecting only ideas and facts that just supports your argument just so you can win, does no one any good.
But you just did that."
I agree. You did one side, I did the other.
"Being poor usually means you live in a poor neighborhood. Your zip code heavily influences your credit and insurance rates."
They can't factor your zip code in for credit. Its not allowed, check it if you don't believe me. For some types of insurance, they can. Whether or not the zip heavily determines your rate has very little to do with income. For example, if you live in an area that has very bad wheather, yes, you can have high HO rates. But that has nothing to do with your income, everyone pays high rates.
"As a percentage of their income, poor people pay higher taxes (including sales taxes, gas surcharges, taxes on utilities, etc) than poor people."
Maybe. You have to take that on a case by case basis. Don't forget everyone has to pay those taxes. Also, don't forget to factor in poor people are usually exempt from most, if not all income tax. (Yes, I know they're exempt because they're poor, but it still helps. That's why its done.)
" And as far as not committing crimes and having a good work ethic, the NYPD walked up to a man in broad daylight and choked him to death for apparently having those two qualities."
I don't mind having a debate, but that statement really has no place in this discussion. You're singling out one extreme exception, and when you really look at the incident, the Cop was 100% at fault, regardless of whatever his excuse was. You're smarter than that.
" Poor people have little say in what activities are considered crimes and that is a large part of the reason why jails are filled with poor people."
I think we are going to have to disagree on that one. Personally, I feel its an insult to law abiding poor people to make a statement like that. (I know you didn't mean it to be an insult, I'm just saying.) Our laws are not perfect and they never will be, but I feel you're making a choice when you commit illegal activity. There's plenty of poor people who play by the rules and get by.
"07-23-14: Nonoise
One needs only to google predatory lending practices to see how badly the poor are marginalized and screwed."
Its definitely a problem. There is some partial progress being made on that one. But don't forget, credit issues like this don't effect only poor people. You can make a very good case that reckless credit practices, on both sides of the fence, have turned middle and upper class people into poor people. Common sense and personal responsibility can go a long way.
"One needs only to google redlining practices in insurance rates and discover that although it's illegal, it's still done through other means (I used to work in insurance so don't try to tell me otherwise)."
That whole statement is a little vague. I do work in insurance. I'm fully licensed in both P&C and Life & Health in 3 states, as well as having my related Fed securities licenses. I think what you are talking about exists like you say, but the problem is no where near large enough to make a case for keeping poor people poor. Actually, I'm surprised that you don't bring up the biggest problem with insurance companies; paying out legitimate claims. They're absolute scumbags when it comes to that.
"What we take as added costs (taxes, surcharges, fees) amount to total, all consuming costs for the poor. Every penny they make or procure goes right out the door. So yes, they are the hardest hit and it's not their fault. They just have the smallest voice in government and are the last anyone pays attention to."
Why is it not their fault? I've had my ups and downs, and at times I was definitely poor. But it was my fault. I'm the one that made a bunch of jackass decisions that led to the result. I know people will probably take offense to this, but for most poor people, it is they're fault they have no money. I understand there can be exemptions, but people just don't do enough to help themselves. You also mention the poor having a small voice in government and no one pays attention to them. Nothing could be further from the truth. With all the billions that we spend on programs that help the poor, we just get very little positive results. Great attention is paid, its just not working. |
"When I asked my insurance agent why mine was so much lower, it was due to my high credit rating."
He was just saying that because it was the first thing he thought of. There's so many factors that go into a decision like that, he can't possibly know them all right off the top of his head. Remember, people that sell insurance are still sales people. Most sales people will lie for any number of reasons. Its unfortunate, but that's how it works. |
"My new position pays less then my last one and I am forced to work the grave yard shift but that's life. Not the life I had hoped for in this stage of the game but at least I can start getting out of debt.
I do not resent success and the pleasure it brings, I like my toys like most of us but it shouldn't be so god damned hard."
One thing to keep in mind is that its much easier to get a job when you already have one. Most employers factor in if you are currently working. Use your new job to find a better one. |
Photon46,
Reading through your last post, I wont say I agree with every single word, but there's very little I disagree with. I think found disagreement when some of the other posts portrayed an overly dismal situation for the poor. Sort of like, poor people are doomed and there is very little they can do about it. I know they didn't mean that literally, but I think the picture was a little too dark. Also, you do a better job of classifying the different types of poor people. Someone born into poverty and not receiving a proper upbringing by their parents, will probably be at more of a disadvantage than someone like me, who was only poor for a short while.
"That said, does that mean that we should abandon all hope and stop trying to save the few that CAN rise above their poor circumstances of birth?"
I never said that. But I do feel that you can help too much.
"Much of my work is at the other side of the educational spectrum with college students. Believe me, I see plenty of students who are the first ones in their families to go to college and they ARE rising above it all and they will stop perpetuating their family's cycle of poverty. Without the programs you say "aren't working," there would be many thousands of college students without the opportunity to change their lives. No doubt you are correct that we spend billions on social programs with inadequate outcomes. "
Just to clarify, I wasn't talking about college loans and grants. I should have been more clear. Loans for school are great programs. I put myself through school with a Stafford loan. The only big problem I see with loans is not the students, but the schools themselves. All these new vocational type schools popping up with ultra high tuition costs, are doing a lot of damage. 6 month programs that cost about 15k and credits that don't transfer.
"07-23-14: Nonoise
It's nice to see a civil discussion here. There is, however, one meme that I have to slay and that is the "billions" we spend on the poor. It sounds like a lot but compared to what?"
You're absolutely right. We're spending trillions in other areas. Personally, though, I really don't like doing these type of comparative analyses. Each problem needs to be dealt with, not in comparison with different issues, but on their own merits. If we have to look at social programs in billions, then that's what it is. If defense spending is in trillions, then we have to look at it on that scale. Diverting money from one problem to the other won't fix anything. Good planning and oversight (if that's even possible) are how to deal with these problems.
"Are you sure you're pissed off at the right people?"
I find that people are usually more pissed off at me, as opposed to me being pissed at them. I have no idea why. |
"I once worked with a man who was born into a wealthy family and he married a daughter of one of the wealthiest and most influential business leaders in our part of the country. He quit working in the business we were in at the time and devoted himself full time to managing his wife's money right at the time the stock market was entering a prolonged bull run (he had training as a broker.) A monkey throwing darts at the financial page NASDAQ listings could make winning decisions in that environment. One day years later when our paths crossed again he remarked with great pride at how well he'd done and how hard he'd worked. When I mentioned that he might take solace in his good fortune in life, he became angry and vehemently denied that family, luck of birth, and good fortune played any role in his lot in life."
Are you still in contact with that guy? I'd really like to talk to him and see how he did it. lol. I don't know if you've ever tried to trade like that for a living, but I can tell you its not easy. He could have gotten lucky, but its far more likely he worked very hard.
"When I mentioned that he might take solace in his good fortune in life, he became angry and vehemently denied that family, luck of birth, and good fortune played any role in his lot in life. I just let it go because you're obviously not going to change someone's world view in an argument like that."
I do understand what you are trying to say in all this, but have another look at the last sentence. How do you know you were right to begin with? Yes, he could have gotten lucky or he could have worked very hard, who knows? I know you weren't trying to offend the guy but when you say: "I just let it go because you're obviously not going to change someone's world view in an argument like that.", I can see where he may have gotten mad. How would you react if he tried to change your world view? You would probably say something like what he said to you.
"I do completely agree with you about "for profit" universities and it will be interesting to see if we can come up with a way to rein in their predatory practices."
I just wanted to clarify what type of school I was talking about. I'm not against a college just because it's for profit. I went to a regular 4 year college that was in business to make a profit. Many people go to schools like that and they're not being ripped off. The schools I'm talking about are called loan mills. These type of schools target people that don't have any type of education above high school. The tuition is based solely on the maximum amount of loans and grants that are available to your average person. They promise the students high paying jobs after graduation, but in the end, its all a bunch of crap. If you are looking for a good example of how the poor are being taken advantage of, this is it. These schools are not only loading people up with debt that they probably will never be able to repay, but the tax payers are taking a huge hit, as well. |
"Quite a while ago there was a congressman from California who lived either in Bel Air or Beverly Hills and he came right out and said that if you based rates on ones driving record (speeding and accidents) and then factored in the cost of repairs (upscale neighborhoods have upscale cars) then his constituents would end up paying a hell of a lot more for their insurance (their fare share) and he would have none of that."
That is how they do it. Tickets and accidents effect premiums in extreme amounts. There's no better example than myself. When I was 18 driving around with a bunch of moving violations and accident on my record, the lowest quote I got for insurance on an $18,000 car was $11,000 for 6 months. ($11,000 is not a typo). A few years later, when everything came off my license, I paid $1200 on a $30,000 car for 6 months. To be fair, though, my $11,000 quote was well earned.
If you guys want to see how insurance companies really abuse people, you need to look at how they pay claims. Whatever injustices there are in calculating premiums, they pale in comparison to what they do when a policy holder has a legit claim. Its unreal. I have no idea how they get away with paying out such low amounts. And they do it to everyone, not just the poor. |
