Are you too old to be an audiophile?

their hearing is the ultimate variable.

However, it is a variable over which we have no control. It MAY (emphasis on MAY) explain some strong differences of opinion over particular pieces of gear, but since there is little I can do about it, and since it is an immutable facet in my perception of sound, I'm not gonna worry too much about it. IOW, I'm gonna trust MY ears, even if they no longer work for $hit due to age and too much R&R in my 'ute ;~)I guess what I am trying to say is that my perception of the music I hear when I sit down tonight is a product of the interaction of the software, each piece of hardware, those little cilia in my cochlea, and my brain. Your perception will not and cannot be the same as mine, unless we are identical twins, with identical environmental exposures, listening to the same recording at the same time. BTW, I accept and respect your explanation of the thread title as an attention getter, but I also understand Dan-ed's taking issue w it. Us old coots can get pretty testy.

Yes, Farjamed, we should not loose respect for our audiophile elders; they do have a tremendous amount of wisdom, and also experience with gear that is invaluable.

Perhaps I was a bit too harsh on the guys at the Quad/Naim dealership in saying I would never return. They were 1.5 hours away, so dismissing it was relatively easy. Very likely I would have visited again over time had they been local. Just because one has some hearing difficulty does not render their opinion or experience of no value.

It's difficult to admit hearing limitations because the entire audiophile culture is built upon hearing well - hearing "good" (left to one's own interpetation) music, hearing it on a good system, hearing it in a good environment, hearing it with good company, hearing it with good ears as well, to a degree. Advice is assumed to be given on the basis of good hearing, which it clearly cannot always be.

A point in favor of the "buncha deaf old guys," one of whom I may be some day; their experience IS very valuable and one must sift out the wheat from the chaff. They often have a huge knowledge base of technical information about what components and speakers go best with each other, what systems are better for different kinds of music (especially if one is focusing on a specific genre of music), how different media are recorded and might sound played back, etc. Turning your back on such knowledge would be a big mistake. Listen to them and take the experience. Be willing to try a recommendation but don't be surprised if you hear something different than described once in a while. It goes with the territory.

After my frustrating experience with the CL-3 cable I by no means wrote off all older audiophiles. Some of the most beautiful and insightful thoughts have come from those who have been in the game longer than I have. I simply enforced a rule that I would weigh advice given differently if I learned that hearing loss was a factor. With time you find out who hears things similar to you and who does not. I would go so far as to say that the differences between what an individual who selects a certain type of technology, say speakers, can be more opposed to one's style of listening than whether or not they have some hearing loss.

I'm not intending to give the impression that hearing acuity is the biggest factor in finding a mentor. I believe it counts, but there are many reasons to hold in esteem audio elders and consider their advice. Simply conduct your own tests and reach your own conclusions, and eventually you'll be an old half deaf guy too (virtually before you know it)!

Thanks Farjamed and Frogman...

I like that crime scene analogy, too. I also think our sense of (audible) contrast is more developed than most. Just like a photographers sense of color contrast is better than non-photographers. It's all about the ear-to-brain or eye-to-brain connections.

When my wife asks me to listen to a noise at night, I don't listen for the noise, I listen to the quiet. Better contrast.

So let's assume someone can only hear between 250hz and 2kz. Still gonna tell me it doesnt matter? I mean no offense to you if you are not trolling just trying to elicit a reaction, but I truly do not understand how you do not understand this point.

No offense taken, and no, I am not trolling. I'm offering a different perspective which happens to be my own. I'm not saying that it doesn't matter that our hearing acuity is different from each other. I'm saying that is one of an infinite number of factors at play that might make you and the next person unique and different. I'm saying that another person's ability to hear and discriminate a way that music is reproduced by a system to their own personal liking does not hinge on any one thing, but a whole universe of of diverse factors. Pointing at one of those factors and judging that they are someone who should be ignored or listened to based on that single factor is ludicrous, IMHO (ie he's older than 60 so his opinion probably bears no relation to what a 30 year-old might prefer - in fact they may prefer exactly the same kinds of things). Take the example about the detective you liked that someone came up with (and I agree, it is a good metaphor for some of what is at play here). Make that detective a one-eye'd detective, or one who is otherwise visually impaired and may not see quite as sharply as the next person. I'd still posit that based on his/her experience (we'll assume he/she is a longtime veteran like Columbo - and Peter Falk actually does have a glass eye) he would see more at a crime scene than the average untrained and inexperienced person. Take my previous reference to my longtime audiophile friend who is deaf in one ear - I've listened to many various systems with him over the years, in many locations. I've listened to his comments on those systems and I will tell you for certain that he may not hear soundstage, but his ability to discriminate and facilitate improvements is top notch in my book. We also have somewhat similar, but not identical, musical tastes and I think that does help. So holding someones ability to hear above 15khz, 12khz, or whatever, does not seem like a given qualification for that person giving very valid and astute observations about the way a system sounds. In your example of someone whose hearing was severely impaired I just don't have enough experience with that to comment, other than there are speakers that I've heard with very limited range that are profoundly enjoyable. I suppose I would weigh severe hearing impairment in if it was something I knew about them, just as I might weigh in their preferences in music, sure. As far as the example of the dealers pushing some wire that Douglas mentioned in his post - one could as easily assert that they had an agenda in selling the wires they represented, over other possible choices as well as the one Douglas already owned (which meant no sale to them). Indeed they also could have had hearing impairments and tastes that do not match Douglas's tastes, and also could have been praising the wires based on their use in a different system. I don't know. I'm not sure why one would jump to the conclusion that they had hearing impairment and that was the cause of their preferring the wires they did. Again, so many things at play and all of that is just speculation and really does mean nothing. Ultimately what counts is what you enjoy yourself - I don't think one can elicit a formula for screening reliable candidates to provide you with those answers. The best candidate is you.

Like I said in the original disclaimer I meant no offense to anyone. The title was just to draw attention. Obviously I do not discriminate against the opinions of the "elders" in these forums.. I come here looking for that advice, after all. I have no doubt that experience is much more inportant than ones ability to hear above 14khz. It was just something that o had wondered and thought it would be an interesting discussion. Food for thought.

For me, what most impresses me about a system is imaging and soundstage but I do value the higher frequencies because I can't stand the muffled sound. When I first started looking for speakers I was looking at b&w. What I didn't like about several of their more conventional floor stander designs were that they sounded closed in and boxy to me. What attracted me to the gallo 3.1 which I own currently was the fact that they sounded so open and had a wide range in which the treble does not fall off. At least horizontally anyway.

One of the main reasons I even started the wondering that started this
Topic was my dad. I bought him some high end shure earbuds which I think are amazing for portable playback. He wasn't impressed by them. He didn't think they were any better than the other pair I'd bought him for
home listening which are the Sony 7506. He is not hearing impaired. He loves music. Why can't he hear the difference? That was my thought process. Now I don't want to get in to the models of headphones because that's not the point, but I have te shure e5c headphones and bought my dad the newer shure se530. I could hear the difference between these two and it's in the midrange. The 530 has a much much better midrange to the point I almost bought a pair for myself even though I already have the e5c. The e5c isn't bad but the 530 is amazing by comparison. Why can't he hear this? Granted he isn't impressed by the e5c, and he is just one man. Could be that it's because he doesn't listen as closely as I do but I find that odd because he prefers headphone listening to
Speakers because he says he can hear tiny details on headphones. Anyway that's just what got me thinking down this road we are all on. Thanks for all the responses. Hope no one was too offended because that was not the point and I'm sure I could use all of your help in bettering my system. Even the deaf old guys. :)

** typed on an iPhone so forgive any typos or random capital letters please