Are you manufacturer's paying attention?

Don't buy the stuff if it does not deliver good value for the money. Just focus on high value-for-performance gear. Is there truly not enough high value/performance gear available?

Can anyone compile a list of high value/performance amplifier manufacturers? Let's examine if there are enough to choose from.

Everyone knows that audio performance does not go up in direct correlation to cost. It is our choice to go beyond the "knee" of the cost/performance curve or not.

Do you want good sound or bragging rights? Have we all not heard mega-buck systems that sounded awful? And cheaper ones that sounded better? Exercise your choices; vote with your purchases.

People paying outrageous prices perpetuate the pricing. The exclusivity, expense, and sheer audacity of some manufacturers appeal to some buyers. We don't have to participate.

My point is that I don't think the complaints about the absence of reasonably priced audio gear are valid. I call upon those who feel differently to prove that there truly are no worthwhile audio products available at affordable prices.

I asked for folks to contribute to a list of worthy and fairly priced components so that we could perhaps examine whether those components really do represent worthy sonic performance at realistic prices. Let's agree on what qualifies as good performance for the price.

Do we want to compare the differences between the Atma-Sphere MA-1's (at $10K) and the Cary SLAM-100's (at $5K), for example? Or do we want to discuss the merits of going with the entry Plinius separates as opposed to the best Plinius integrated amp? Do products from ARCAM, Musical Fidelity, Antique Sound Lab, Audio Electronic Supply, and Wright Sound qualify for this discussion?

I also suggested we all have some control over the pricing. If it ain't worth it, don't buy it. Prices will come down if so-called over-priced gear does not sell. (I believe that sonic performance per dollar spent is going UP, not down IMHO.)

Many audio buyers seem to pay a lot for components based on the perceived prestige of owning "pedigree" gear as opposed to superior sonic performance. Is my point any clearer now?

If your reference to the market place finding out about high prices not necessarily offering commensurate performance, and you mean Joule Electra, I agree.

I am familiar with both the VZN 80 and your MA-1's. Their pricing was ballpark similar at the time I heard both. No contest. MA-1's win.

Well said, Tweak1.

Fiddler. Do you mean listener distance in the hall, or do you mean general clarity?

If you mean apparent "hall perspective," my experience is the opposite. Every single SS amp I've auditioned tended to give a more distant perspective than either tubes with transformers or OTL amps.

If you mean general focus, I still don't follow you based on experience. OTL's happen to provide the most detail in a realistic way I have ever heard. SS amps might initially give one the impression of increased focus, but one usually pays the price in the form of either exaggerated, dry detail, or an attempt to control those known down sides with an artificially damped or controlled upper frequency presentation. The SS amps I am comparing to include: Mark Levinson No. 33's, Spectral DMA-100, Pass Labs 250's, BAT-VK-500, and the Sunfire amp.

Not all the tube amps I've tried are the cats meow, either. I still just can't relate to your unequivocal statement about viewing a painting at 5, 10, and 20 feet, etc. My own experience does NOT jibe with it.

I also find it interesting that SS supporters tend to phrase their position in absolute terms, as if they have scientific certitude on their side. To question it is to throw oneself into the realm of heresy--so religiously convinced does the language of many SS proponents sound.

I personally could care less what is inside the amplifier-whether it's SS, tubes, OTL, or batteries, whatever…. All I care about is verisimilitude to a live performance. I find a greater consistent familiarity to live sound when I listen to good tubed amps. That's different from stating something like. "Take a listen to a live performance; a good tubed amp gives you the weight, authority, the air, the harmonic structures in tact, etc. The SS amp gives you a good approximation, but it tends to foreshorten the front-to-back layering or lessen stage depth, shrink the sound stage in general, reduce the physical presence or sense of real people making air move." Many SS proponents seem to use dictatorial language, which implies that any other view is inaccurate, and worthy of ridicule. Many tube folks seem to just state matters in terms of their experiencing a live concert and leave it at that.

Fiddler, I get it now. Wow, how easily I misunderstood your analogy! For some reason, the same language I found sort of "in your face," seems OK, now that I know that you agree with me....
This has been a good lesson for me. Thanks for clarifying matters. It's such a relief to find a concurrence on these illusive, esoteric issues of aural approximation to live music. One can begin to think every other opinion is unique and no agreement can take place because we all process music too differently.
I can think of no other explanation for some of the widespread acceptance some audio gear has. I hear the same, lauded gear, and scratch my head in disbelief. This is supposed to be good?