2. analog
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Are You Happy With Your Phono Preamp?

I have been gradually upgrading my analogue components.  Which presently consist of: SME 20/2 turntable (old but good), Kuzma 4Point Tonearm, Soundsmith Hyperion (MI) cartridge (love this), Dynavector (MC) DRT XV1, PS Audio Stellar Phono Preamp (connected to ARC Ref 6, Pass Labs 160.8, Avantgarde Uno).  I have to say that I am very happy with the analogue sound from this system.  That said, high end audio being what it is I can’t help wondering if I am leaving some better sound on the table with the PS Audio phono preamp … though I know I should not judge by price alone.  I have been looking alternative phono stages:  the VTL 6.5i, ARC Reference 3SE, Boulder 508, Pass XP17 … this price range.  Those who are long experienced analogue lovers … do you think I am leaving any sound quality on the table by sticking with the PS Audio phono stage? Do you believe that I would see a meaningful change in sound quality by moving to a phono stage in the price range I have been looking at?

chilli42

Showing 5 responses by cleeds

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cleeds
5,699 posts
 

clearthinker

I have had ARC phono amps before but I didn't look at the Ref3 because it can't be run fully balanced ...

You're mistaken. All the ARC Reference line stage and phono preamps run fully balanced using differential circuits.

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cleeds
5,699 posts
 

clearthinker

It isn’t FULLY balanced. Whilst XLRs are an option for the output, the input is phono plugs only with two wires only. There is no separate earth. The earth must run on one or other of the two signal wires.

You are completely mistaken. The ARC Ref preamps are fully balanced/floating and the ground floats separately from the signal itself, even on the Ref Phono units that use RCA inputs. (The line stages offer RCA and XLR connections on each input.)

When I say fully balanced I don’t mean artificially balanced using differential circuits

It isn’t clear what you mean by "artificially balanced." How would you design a balanced preamp without differential circuits? Transformer coupling? That’s what many would consider to be "artificially balanced," @clearthinker.

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cleeds
5,699 posts
 

clearthinker

I think we shall agree to differ.

Really, you’re going to cling to the silly notion that differentially balanced circuits are "artificially balanced?" Yes, we differ, because I’m among many that think differential circuits are the best way to achieve balanced operation.

Are you going to cling to the notion that the ARC Ref Phono preamps are not balanced? If so, yes we differ. You might also want to take your notion up with ARC, because here’s what it says about the Ref Phono 2SE that I use:

The Reference Phono 2 SE is a fully balanced design with an input circuit that allows its RCA inputs to operate in a balanced configuration without requiring an inverter. The tube complement is similar to that of other Reference components, with four 6H30s in the gain stage with a 6550C and 6H30 in the power supply. The Reference Phono 2 also features the same basic analog stage as its acclaimed siblings.

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cleeds
5,699 posts
 

clearthinker

But I still cannot see how it can be fully balanced if it has only phonos for inputs.

You apparently don’t understand what balanced operation is. The connectors really don’t have anything to do with it - whether a component is balanced is a function of the circuitry, not the connectors. In ARC’s case, the preamps use differential circuits - phono and line stage alike - to achieve balanced operation. It’s still not clear to me why you call that "artificially balanced," because many consider differential circuits the ideal way to achieve balanced operation.

All fully balanced phono amps offer XLRs for both inputs and outputs.

Not so. All ARC Reference Phono preamps are fully balanced, @clearthinker, and that’s how I run my ARC Ref 2SE balanced phono preamp into a Ref Phono 5SE line stage.

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cleeds
5,699 posts
 

clearthinker

I concluded that it could not be certain the ARC Ref 3 is fully balanced.

I’ve seen the schematic (of the Ref Phono 2SE), so I know it’s balanced. You’re obviously just going to cling to your notions, such as that differential circuits are "artificially balanced," and you’re free to believe as you wish.

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