Listen to the Taiko Olympus and report back. I've heard differences with every single streamer I've had in my system, extremely important streaming component. Issue is full potential of any streamer won't be heard if rest of streaming chain not up to snuff. I treat streaming chain exactly like entire system chain which means everything from AC quality to room.
ARE SUPER EXPENSIVE STREAMERS REALLY WORTH IT
Folks I am confused why some streamers need to be so eye wateringly expensive. I appreciate the internal basics need to be covered such as a high quality, low noise power supply and a decent processor speed etc.. but that is not rocket science.
So my question is could a decent streamer outputting its data stream via I2S to a good quality DAC receiving the I2S stream be a more cost effective way of rivalling let’s say a streamer costing 5k upwards.
I have heard and digested the argument for expensive streamers quality being centred around the management of the data timing via a quality clock circuit but there are very reasonable in relative terms, DAC’s out there that have dual super high quality temp controlled clocks within, at least the equal or arguably even better than the say a 5k streamer with some sporting dual high end DAC chips etc.
So could utilizing a good quality streamer and a separate high-quality DAC connected via I2S indeed offer significant benefits and potentially reduce the need for a very expensive streamer.
I say this with the knowledge that I2S is designed to preserve and separate the Signals so avoiding the timing issues connected with multiplexing. I2S (Inter-IC Sound) separates the music signal from the timing signal, potentially eliminating jitter or at the very least greatly reducing the possibility for the pesky music killing jitter which we all could agree would lead to improving overall sound quality.
Wouldn’t this separation ensure that the timing information is more accurately preserved, even when compared to a high price streamer, leading as clean or cleaner and more precise audio data output. With I2S, the DAC can use its own high-quality clock/s to synchronize the data, which will reduce jitter and improve sound quality.
Could this possibly mean that even if the streamer has a less advanced clock, the DAC’s superior clock can take over, ensuring best performance.
So bang for buck would it not be advantageous to investing in a high-quality DAC and using a good but not necessarily top-tier streamer to achieve excellent sound quality without the need for an extremely expensive streamer. Surely the DAC’s performance will play a crucial role in the final sound quality.
Play gentle with the pile on please....................
Showing 6 responses by sns
So there seems to be a lot of discussion about I2S vs usb here. I have my own experience which favors I2S but not going to extrapolate this is universal for all setups. I2S does have inherent advantages in that it is native signal path in dacs, it separates data from clock, a lone possible disadvantage is an external clock may be used vs internal dac clock, the theoretically better placement of clock is closest to signal path. So I have the choice to use the external OXCO clock in my Gaia DDC vs internal clocks in my dacs, both Femto, in other words I can sync or unsync clocks, in both cases the external OXCO clock in Gaia provides better sound quality than local clocks (this using 1/2M Tubulus Ximius I2S cable).
So for those who claim none of this is an inherent advantage of I2S, is it an inherent advantage to send signal on detour through usb boards of who knows what quality, only then to convert back to I2S? Is it an advantage to require the dac to separate clock from data?
Not saying usb can't sound good, I used it for at least a decade without complaint, only recently did I discover the I2S setup beat it. And over that decade I've used all manner of streamers with various usb implementation, tweaks and isolation of usb, very nice usb cables, dacs with some very nice usb boards including custom implementations. I2S belongs in the category of less is more which some seem to espouse, point being why do needless conversions.Not going to argue this point as I sometimes experience more is more such as optical conversion.
All in all, I'd take the battle of I2S vs usb on a case by case basis, optimize both and report back, actual experience counts for more than second hand repetition of some other person's experience. |
@wtyamamoto Incorrect information on I2S,all the dacs with I2S input I'm aware off give you the choice of sync or async, in other words you have choice between the streamer/DDC clock or dac internal clock.
For those who hear differences amongst streamers, many also hear differences between music player apps. Check out all the Aurender and Innuos users who prefer their native apps vs Roon. I also hear differences in the various apps available to me in my custom build streamer, ie. Roon, Euphony Stylus, HQPlayer. Roon and HQPlayer both require much processor resources, this will affect sound quality.
And I don't think anyone here is saying dacs not important, they are absolutely important! |
I don't know if the Ps Audio has that capability, best to ask those familiar with unit. I'd also question whether you are indeed operating in sync mode, I was just reading this, https://forum.psaudio.com/t/ps-audio-i2s-clock/30748 According to my reading the directstream is using it's clock. |
Whatever interface one uses they all can be less or more depending on one's optimization. While I2S has some inherent advantages that doesn't mean it will always sound better than usb or whatever. Clocking and power supplies to the clocks is of utmost importance.. Three categories of clocks, femto, txco, oxco, in theory the order of quality least to most is femto, txco, oxco. In reality a well implemented femto clock could outperform a less well implemented oxco clock. The quality of the clock itself and more importantly the quality of the power supply to that clock matters a lot.
The above holds true whether comparing I2S implementations or comparing usb vs I2S implementations. The most optimal implementation for either of these interfaces would be a well implemented oxco clock in both streamer and dac. Good luck trying to find that in either streamers or dacs. space limitations for the power supply alone make it very difficult to implement. Femto clocks are easiest to implement with these space limitations, cost considerations probably play a role as well.
So, wide variability in clocks and interfaces and we haven't even gotten to differences in motherboards, processors, RAM, operating systems, linear power supplies, music player apps. All have a bearing on sound quality.
And then we haven't even gotten to differences in optical vs ethernet, switches vs routers, digital cables, modems, linear power supplies to all these devices, and I may be forgetting some things.
Some believe you can just slap in any streamer and get the same quality of sound with a fully optimized streaming setup. I and many others have experienced otherwise so believe whatever you want to believe. |
@vthokie83 Nice thorough explanation. For those contemplating using I2S interface very valuable to have dac that provides the ability to use async (use dac internal clock) with that connection, with this one can determine the value of slave or internal clocking.
Also, there are streamers out there with I2S outputs, as to how they're optimized is the question. Going this route one would be bypassing need for DDC and the input to that DDC, in most cases this will be usb. |