Are REL the most Musical Subs?


Forgive me if I have created a redundant thread.  I don’t usually post in the Speakers area.

  I have a Paradigm sub in my basement HT that has apparently given up the ghost after about 20 years.  I’m not a huge bass listener.  We used to use the area for movies but lately a different room of the home has taken that over.  I listen to classical music and the system gets used primarily for SACD and Blu Ray.  No desire for multiple subs.  The front speakers are full range, setup is 5.1

  I added a REL sub to my 2 channel system a few years ago, an REL, and have been delighted with the results.  It doesn’t boom at me.  What it does do is add the low level percussion effects that composers such as Mahler, Shostakovich , and modernist composers add to reinforce bass lines.  I never realized, for example, how many gentle tympani and gong effects are in Shostakovich Babi Yar symphony.

The REL integrates all of this naturally without calling attention to itself.  The Paradigm in the basement never did this but it was an older design and more budget friendly.

  So I am inclined to replace the Paradigm with another REL in the basement but was wondering what the current thinking is with subs.  I haven’t paid much attention lately and the stuff that I have pulled discusses multiple subs, Atmos, etc, and doesn’t seem to address my needs.

  Placement will be different as well.  The current sub is placed between the front speakers, and the gear rack is on the other side of the room.  20 years ago I had the energy to bury the cables next to a baseboard heat along the all, after schlepping the sub over the basement testing placement spots,but with advances in DSP I’m now hoping to place the sub next to the rack

mahler123

hi does anyone know about this Allison push/ pull sub they are talking  about ? maybe have photos ? i cannot find any information about it 
Thx ! 
there is a LOT of experience here . respect 
David Moran

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Jonathan Gourd

There was also a really terrific double push-pull passive sealed sub

                                                                                                                             Jack Dale

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David Moran can find no record of that sir!

Only this 10-in and there was an 8 in as well.

I had thought about remaking one of my al-130s that's been bastardized with a different mid-range to a push-pull sub center channel

How low do the Allison 8 inch woofers go to?

With that electronic subwoofer you can push him down a bit right?

Well if you can find the specs dimensions for that dual push pull sub I can use a pair of Alison woofers did they use different woofers for a sub then?

 

David Moran

Top contributor

Jack Dale same driver as al130   David Moran
Top contributor

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Jack Dale

I’ll find the brochure

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Another +1 for Rhythmik (I have a pair of F12G's -- with the GR drivers). I use an external crossover to avoid overlap between mains and subs. 

In general, I look at subs addressing two issues: First, and for some the only issue, they get the low end that your speakers are missing. Having an external crossover is a must.

The second issue is addressing room modes in a way that preserves your system's imaging. This can be complex to calculate, but there are techniques (look up the "subwoofer crawl" for example) to experimentally determine placement. And DSP systems may be able to help, although DSP is not some magic bullet that can make up for poor sub placement.

The beauty of using two or more subs is that they can cancel out areas of high bass amplitude and/or fill in areas of low bass amplitude. The sub placements that minimize room modes are highly unlikely to be the optimal placement for your mains. This is fine; as long as the crossover is less than about 100 Hz, most people's ears won't be able to localize the source of low frequency sound. 

So with multiple subs, you can place the subs for best room mode mitigation, while leaving your speakers in the locations that provide the best imaging / soundstage. Even if you had magic 20-20kHz speakers, the locations of the speakers for imaging vs. the location for best bass won't be the same. You are better off decoupling that location by using subs and an active crossover.

Placed properly, two or more subs will make that soundstage seem much bigger; everything disappears and you're right there with the music. What has worked for me is two Rhythmik subs crossing over at 70 Hz to my Epicon 6's. Yes, the Epicons can play lower, but the room response means letting the Rhythmiks take the bottom end is the right thing.

I wish I could build a proper listening room, but that's not in the cards for me. Proper placement of multiple subs is a reasonable alternative to a dedicated room...

can anybody share their impressions of the Classic 99?

I need a new sub and in its price range my short list is down to the REL or soon to be released Martin Logan Dynamo 12

really looking to enhance soundstage more than thump but those ML units look sweet and you cannot beat app control from your couch imo

 

 

So I added a REL T9x to my basement HT 2 days ago.  I wound up placing it in the same location that the former Paradigm sub occupied.  It’s early days but so far I am very pleased.  Every thing sounds better, not just the bass.

  I am seriously considering adding a second but will give this some time before I jump there.  The improvement from the previous Paradigm sub is significant 

Best sub for music, if you are use very sensitive speakers,

Fostex FW800 HS

I have one and have never looked back