The problem is that a passive volume control isn't a bit of wire. If it were, it would not have a resistance value.
And to all, active preamps have volume controls as well, and most times not as good quality as the better passives pre's usually use. Also active pre's use many other distorting/colouring components in them. At least passive pre's usually only have a quality pot, which is why they are the closest in sound to going direct (a straight piece of wire)
when used correctly. And balanced is not needed if you only use <3mts interconnect, and in many case better as the balance inputs and outputs on many pieces of equipment, are opamps to make them balanced, when their true circuit is not, so your better off using the single ended inputs on those, again a more direct path, instead of going through opamp etc for balanced Cheers George |
You have to take what’s said with a grain of salt anyone that has $$$ to be made out of something. (and no I don’t own Lightspeed Attenuator anymore) and when I did I still always said going direct was better still.
It’s said Paul backed MQA to use it, and then pulled the pin just as quickly when it lost cred.
Cheers George
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Everything you own, every piece in the hifi chain, is designed with technical EE laws, equations and knowledge, like I said it takes both, but more so the tech side, and if it wasn’t I suggest you don’t go near it.
Different if it were a painting with no math’s or EE science involved.
Cheers George |
Your personal feeling when you listen without preamp, or with passive preamp is just that, a personal perspective. Sorry not just personal (subjective), but technical (objective) just as much if not more so. Cheers George |
"Since it is equipped with high-class preamp, this player may also double as the heart of a small, but very fine high-end system." Odd that Burmester 089 should have been great direct, as recommended by the manufacturer. As it’s output is a 60 position VC active preamp with a switchable tape input also, as these spec show with 4v low output impedance you defiantly don’t need to run a preamp into another preamp with even more gain from the second preamp. Their must be another reason, preferred additional preamp, coloration perhaps https://www.i-fidelity.net/en/test-reports/high-end/burmester-089/labreport.html Output voltage: 4.1 V Channel deviation: 0.035 dB Output resistance: 256 Ω DC output offset: < 0.5 mV Cheers George |
That list came from a post you made a while back.
You don’t use a Metrum Acoustics Adagio dac now?
Also understandable that you preferred the active buffer as the Khozmo, and most tube pre’s would not have suited the 10kohm input impedance of the SMc monos.
Cheers George |
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mitch2 Interesting, it has to quote: "The clever implementation of the volume control by lowering or raising the reference voltage "in the converters" is something I have never seen before and works flawlessly." " And, its volume control is neither conventional analog nor lossy digital." This to me means you would definitely have an I/V (current to voltage converter) stage after the R2R dac chip set, and then also an output buffer with or without gain. It’s output impedance is <100ohms SE at 2v output, which means it has an output buffer, and is a great candidate for direct to amp connection, and no problem with your SMc monos 10kohm input impedance, they only need 1v in, for full peak wattage output So Mitch, get rid of all those preamps you have - Hattor Audio Mini Passive-Active Pre with Takman REY, XLR, and opamp active buffer ($1,550)
- Benchmark LA4 ($2,599)
- W4S STP-SE ( $1,999)
- Schiit Freya ($850)
- Tortuga Audio with CuTf caps ($4,019)
- SPL Volume 2 ($499 - considered but ruled out because no remote volume)
Because you "should" blow all of them away, with what you have above, by going direct. Cheers George |
mitch2
I have owned a DAC with a passive VC, but do not remember seeing one with an active stage.
That’s because most dac’s with VC’s do it in the digital domain, yours was a rare one to have a passive VC on it’s output inside the dac, and that would have had to have been after an active buffer anyway, as if not, then it would have had to be after the I/V (current to voltage converter stage) and that would not have been a good idea..
I am surprised manufacturers of those DACs with VC don’t provide a unity gain buffered output.
The ones that have VC’s in the digital domain, all have active output buffers, unity or with gain, as did yours, but it was before the passive VC on the output, what brand model was it?? Cheers George |
For the vinyl guys, as many of my customers have found. That even many stand alone phono stages these days, and there are many of them with low output impedance, and enough gain to drive the poweramp via a passive pre directly, that don’t need the extra gain of a mega dollar active preamp in the signal path, with it’s extra distortions, colorations and cost, and their systems sound better for it. EG: just one is, PS Audio’s Stellar phono stage, it has a 72db!! of gain and lower than 200ohm output impedance, https://www.psaudio.com/products/stellar-phono-preamplifier/ this would be great for direct to poweramp via a $39 2 x switchable input 10kohm passive-pre like the Schiit Sys https://www.schiit.com/products/sysOr if you want some tube or ss coloration, and still be able to use it passive as well, the $599 Schiit Freya https://www.schiit.com/products/freya-sCheers George |
Your the one who reacted (very defensively) to my comments first, where I was just agreeing with two other members that had nothing to do with you
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vanson1
Are Pre-Amps necessary? With all the advances in digital sources, do we still need a $5,000 pre-amp?
All we need is a switching device and maybe a Phono preamp/RIAA curve device.
Preamps are a dinosaur left over from the phono days, when sources had very low outputs and far higher output impedances. They are not needed these days with nearly all of todays sources, except maybe with weak tube output sources. As I and many others say, in nearly all cases they are worse than going direct or using a passive, and a waste of big money for the higher end ones. https://forum.audiogon.com/posts/2262469Cheers George |
Not when many poweramps use opamps as their balanced inputs, and then it routes to their single ended input.
In these cases by using the single ended input, you get a better sound, as there’s no opamp in the signal path then.
Cheers George
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Are Pre-Amps necessary? vanson1 With all the advances in digital sources, do we still need a $5,000 pre-amp?
jasonbourne521,167 posts10-15-2021 10:31amPreamps can look real cool - like my Audio Research SP6! However a passive pot works just as well since most all DACs output 2 volts - enough to drive most all amps into clipping (1 volt needed). Jason is correct here, a little more elaboration below. Many amps are 1.5v or less input sensitivity for full output, and most dacs today are well over 2v output these days, so there’s no problem with being able to voltage drive. And most dacs today have very low output impedance output stages, that are equal to or better than many solid state preamps to drive any capacitive interconnects with, especially bettering most tube preamps. So it’s a furphy to say a preamps drive better than dacs can direct. And like I said if a passive pre has no voltage or impedance issues then it is the next best way. Sure balanced has it’s place in over 3mt interconnect runs, for noise cancelation only, below that there is no need for it. As single ended is just as good, and better in many cases better, as the balanced inputs of many poweramps are just a "balanced opamp" then leading the into the real single ended input of the amp which will sound better. Cheers George |
