Why would I want to be one of those guys? They are stuck in conventional world.
I have something far more creative. I always think outside the box. In a little while they are going to wish they were me.
Besides those guys and the others you did not name are running just a few years behind me right now.
I honestly wonder if you're not ripping off somebody else's work and hocking it as your own.
Sorry kosst - you will just have to find out on your own what I have accomplish when you read the reviews or see it at a show. Good luck with your personal issues. I hope things work out ok for you.
You see - all forms of distortion start off as phase shift or timing issues." WRONG. Just because a distortion wave form appears slightly phase shifted from the fundamental does not mean that the phase shift causes it.
I'm amazed every time I mention something you seem to see it from the wrong angle or something. I'm not trying to be difficult but let me clarify what I mean. in particular..
...does not mean that the phase shift causes it.
Just the opposite - the distortion caused the phase shift - not the other way around.
When I say I'm tightly monitoring the phase of the fundamental - I am watching for the first sign that something has gone wrong. That is the canary in the coal mine. By stopping the phase shift - you have cut off any means of generating harmonics.
>>>>>footnote on history. I was in the big Tenor/Rockport/Shunyata/Audio Aero exhibit in the brand new Tuscany Hotel. The room was 50x50. It was judged by most senior audiophiles and reviewers to be the best sound of show. It was judged by senior reviewer and author of the RCA Bible Jonathan Valin to be not only the best sound at the show but the best sound he had ever heard anywhere. What was your humble scribe doing in this monster system? I was providing vibration isolation stands for all four (4) count em Tenor Amos as well as the Audio Aero CD Player. A customer of mine knew the exhibit coordinator, Jonathan Tinn. Yeah, Baby!
Tenor amplifiers have no global feedback. We contend this to be the first step in great amplifier design.
We then map the low natural distortion of our amplifiers. This is done for every tone and overtone - at every frequency simultaneously … at every amplitude. This allows us to understand exactly our amplifier’s dynamic nature of distortion while playing real music and not just the static measurement at a particular frequency and amplitude - the way distortion is measured by the industry today. With this detailed mapping, we shape our amplifier circuit using Tenor’s proprietary HSI technology in a manner that the brain perceives no distortion. What little distortion Tenor amplifiers have is now effortlessly and subconciously ignored by the brain. This is the premise of Zero Perceived Distortion - laying bare the beautiful essence of each original master recording in all of its splendour!
What little distortion Tenor amplifiers have is now effortlessly and subconciously ignored by the brain
stfoth
a different approach on "perfect."
Yes it is different but not correct and apparently not zero distortion.
NO - All issues are related to nonlinearity (NL) which caused the harmonics. Harmonic distortion is one by-product of a NL circuit. Imaging suffers even with the slightest amount of NL A holographic image certainly cannot be maintained in such a circuit.
Do you think that after decades of work trying to analyze the tiny events that lead up to the production of harmonics that I'm going to say "Oh I know - I'll just use negative feedback - why didn't I think of this before?"
Ok here is a fact: If you see something and react to it and use a countermeasure against it to "fix" it you are applying some form of negative feedback.
True.
The trick is where do you apply it and to fix what problem? There is no "loop" from output back to the input. I don't monitor voltage fluctuations seen on the vertical axis. I use a form of feedback that involves shifting phase by micro-degrees at a particular location in the circuit that will allow this type of correction to be effective in stopping distortion from happening. This type of "feedback" is 1000 times the potency of classic negative feedback which we know does not work.
The Auto-Focus by default could not "automatically" focus anything unless it can detect and react.
Classic NFB can only suppress harmonic distortion to lower levels. My circuit "correction method" stops distortion all together.
The source of distortion in a gain device is related to deviations in it's transconductance. Deviations in transconductance are, at the very least, the byproducts of capacitance, resistance, and inductance within the transistor itself. They're unavoidable characteristics.
The source of distortion is related to ....bla ...bla...bla. You realize that what you are saying is: "The source of distortion is related to the nonlinearity."
You are describing what causes the nonlinearity - I am describing how the nonlinearity you have described causes the damage to the signal which as a result produces the harmonic.
No matter how the nonlinearity manifests itself - I have a way to deal with it.
You have NOT solved all of those problems.
News flash - As a matter of fact I have. You see - all forms of distortion start off as phase shift or timing issues.
You keep doubling down on the same argument and its not going to get you anywhere. You are digging a deeper hole that you are going to have to climb out of at some point when the truth is made known.
This is not wishful thinking or a theory - the circuitry already exists that does EXACTLY what I'm describing and it works perfectly.
I know this sounds too good to be true but its true. I told you this would make some people happy and others not so happy.
Can you explain to me how an amplifier can produce energy at 2khz when all it has to work with is the pure 1khz tone applied at the input? If you don't think it is using a modified version of the input to do this then if you stop the 1khz input - does the circuit still continue to produce 2khz energy? No. In fact there are no harmonics anywhere in the spectrum with no input.
The 2khz harmonic IS energy from the 1khz signal that has been warped and bent by the nonlinear event. It literally changes the shape if the pure tone (which is not pure any more) into a brief segment of what looks like a 2khz tone.
For that tiny moment - that small segment of the input signal has been moved up a FULL OCTAVE. This can be seen by running a tape machine at twice the playback speed.
Don't tell me this is not happening - I know for a fact that it is. This is what I have been studying for years. By detecting the first sign of distortion (the initial phase shift that starts on its way to becoming a harmonic) and stopping it from going further - you have an amplifier circuit that has no distortion.
Harmonic distortion is caused by nonlinearity in the gain devices. Period.
I agree 100% - we know it is caused by nonlinearity I'm not disputing that. I am saying that I know the means by which harmonic distortion is actually generated by the nonlinearity.
At any point along the [sign wave] that the gain is increased or decreased you have essentially speeded up or slowed down that segment of the sign wave which makes it appear as a higher or lower frequency. This is the only way that 2khz energy can exit a circuit fed by 1khz.
What I'm saying is the actual means for producing the harmonics is directly caused by the damaging effect the a nonlinear event has on a pure 1khz tone. We are on the same page but I can go further and describe the chain of events that ends up with the harmonics. I have studied a kind of slow motion observation of those events in order to place a trap that is triggered by the very first sign that it has come upon a non linear obstacle You can nip it in the bud if you know how to detect that it is starting to distort. The very first thing to go is the phase of the pure tone - this is the birth of a harmonic. My circuit can spot this at such an early point that it can be stopped before it even has left the fundamental frequency of 1khz. The detector can spot a shift in phase of micro-degrees and apply a phase countermeasure that prevents it from continuing shift in phase and ultimately in frequency (as monitored on the spectrum as 2khz)
A non linear amplifier produces harmonics by literally manipulating the phase and frequency of the input signal. Period.
If you can stop the manipulation from happening - you have stopped it from distorting. As long as the detector can monitor the phase of the fundamental and apply a countermeasure to prevent it from going any further - it now has no means of distorting.
Classic negative feedback is supposed to do the same thing but it can't. It relies on monitoring the instantaneous voltage at the output and compares a reduced version back to the input (typically a differential pair). This method is monitoring the voltage along the vertical axis. Because of this configuration - vital information is lagging do to the fact that damaging events have already occurred by the time you notice a change in voltage.
Whoa! What’s with all the angst, Costco? OK, let me take a different tack. Let’s look at it this way. There’s a sailboat out at sea ⛵️ and it’s in the doldrums, you know where the air is very still. Where the air is not moving. Where it’s velocity is effectively zero as well as force. If the air was moving the sails would catch the wind, no? Only a fool would argue that air in a listening room is moving. The kinetic energy of the molecules is irrelevant. Only a fool would argue that the speed of sound is not constant in a given listening room. Any listening room. Even if it was in a wind tunnel. 🌬
"Ok, so what are you going to do, slow down the propogation of an electrical audio signal to 750 mph? That in and of itself, if achievable, and I doubt it, would time distort the signal even further in the electrical domain."
>>>>Uh, I get the feeling you’re not following the discussion. He’s not saying that at all.
Then stevecham wrote,
"And, I challenge that air does not time distort music; there are microbar or even nanobar changes happening in local environments constantly, simply through the movement of air alone. We know how wind direction can easily change if we hear across a distance or not. Air molecules are chemical entities; electrons are first generation leptons. Each is governed by a VERY different set of physical properties."
>>>>Again, yours are Strawman arguments. He’s not saying any of those things. You are jousting at windmills. Furthermore, If you had been paying attention you’d know that electrons have practically nothing to do with it.
Then stevecham wrote,
"Changes in playback speed change pitch."
>>>>>So what? You might as well say the sky is blue. He’s not implying playback speed changes. Hel-loo!
Costco_emoji, obviously I’m referring to standard temperature pressure at sea level. You can ignore the kinetic VELOCITIES that Steve was trying to promote. I never said the speed of sound isn’t a function of temperature, Mr. Smarty Pants. Stop trying to put words in my mouth. The speed of sound is a constant at standard temperature and pressure. In Roger’s case you can assume any temperature or pressure you want. It doesn’t matter. He wants to preserve the speed of sound - whatever it is under the conditions at the time. Duh! The recording could have been made In 110 degree heat during a thunderstorm. It does not (rpt not) matter. Follow?
Air molecules at room temperature move about 1000 mph. They are bouncing around and banging off each other at very high speed."
Air is considered motionless in the room. The motion of something passing through air is relative motion. It's customary to consider the velocity of air zero relative to acoustic waves passing through it. Consider a listening room on a moving train where music is playing. The velocity of air in the listening room is still zero relative to the car of the train. Thus the velocity of acoustic waves passing through the air in a car on a moving train would be the speed of sound, the same velocity of acoustic waves in a room in a stationary building. It would be absurd to consider still air is moving at 1000 mph when it’s relative motion is zero. It would be equally absurd to consider the air in the room moving at the velocity of the Earth’s rotation on its axis or the velocity of the Earth’s motion around the sun. Besides, all the air molecular motion cancels out. The net velocity is zero since it’s all random motion.
Also, I read your white paper Roger. There is not a single element of circuit theory presented, or is there any citation of the work of many who have explored time domain distortion.
Ok, so what are you going to do, slow down the propogation of an electrical audio signal to 750 mph? That in and of itself, if achievable, and I doubt it, would time distort the signal even further in the electrical domain. And, I challenge that air does not time distort music; there are microbar or even nanobar changes happening in local environments constantly, simply through the movement of air alone. We know how wind direction can easily change if we hear across a distance or not. Air molecules are chemical entities; electrons are first generation leptons. Each is governed by a VERY different set of physical properties.
Apparently you've been at this gig for years judging by the guy who offered to take a listen to your gear who wasn't overly impressed the last time he heard it.
Its true - of course that was ten years ago. A lot of progress including a few breakthroughs have occurred since then. Do you know how many large corporations started in the garage of the founder? Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Hewlett Packard - they all had to start somewhere. Being on the same path - I feel like I'm in good company. The trick is that you have to make progress otherwise technology WILL slow to a crawl.
Zero "velocity distortion" is an oxymoron. Just as there is no net movement of air molecules in the propogation of soundwaves, so too there is no net movement of electrons in the propogation of electrical signals in audio circuits.
Very good - when you get a chance please have a look at my white paper where I describe among other things how the air closest to the violin is being disturbed by the sound vibrations coming from the violin (strings). Adjacent air molecules are passing the entire sound of the violin as a wave. What we hear with our ears is the influence of this disturbance flowing as a wave through air. The speed or velocity at which the wave travels is around 750 mph. The original air molecules have not left the stage they are still at the violin.
Zero "velocity distortion" is an oxymoron
The velocity of the air medium is zero. In order to successfully amplify a music signal that is "traversing" as a flowing wave, you must maintain a constant velocity (neither faster or slower than 750 mph).
Changes in the playback speed of the music signal generates harmonics. Air never alters the speed of the traversing sound waves - neither should the amplifier. If you can stabilize the velocity of the amplifier you have simulated that property of air. This is readily recognized by the brain.
From the peanut gallery, all recording systems have inertia. Inertia will always distort the time domain relative to the original input. You can’t get away from this. It is a physical property that is built into such mechanical-to-electronic-to-mechanical transducers (microphones, loudspeakers). Zero "velocity distortion" is an oxymoron. Just as there is no net movement of air molecules in the propogation of soundwaves, so too there is no net movement of electrons in the propogation of electrical signals in audio circuits.
Enjoyment of music comes first. Reinventing physics comes second.
kosst, I'm not accusing you of being the measurements freak. I'm sorry if you got that impression. I'm trying to show the difference between an amp that measures zero compared to an amp that IS zero.One sounds awful and one sounds incredible. Can you tell me how to measure zero distortion with a music signal as the source?
If you measure the voltage level (of the source) like an orchestra playing normally and you get X amount. (lets say 1/2 volt nominal) Then without changing a beat - add the guy with the triangle at the back of the hall when he adds a single note to the mix. Besides not being able to identify it on a scope - how much additional voltage appears now that the triangle is playing. How big is just the triangle voltage? Millivolts? microvolts? nanovolts? picovolts? This is the range of signals I work with and have mastered control over.
If the entire orchestra was quiet and just left the triangle - it would be seen on a scope as closer to the noise floor. In order to successfully project that object back to the rear of the hall and keep it in focus - you need circuitry with enough sensitivity and resolution to handle the task of rendering that object at that distance. The greater the depth or distance of an object - the harder it is to place it back into the image unscathed.
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