Are big subwoofers viable for 2 channel music?

The OP was asking specifically about home theater and the psa S7201. Thanks for the correction big_greg.

That psa S7201 looks strangely similar to ’stacked’ pro style marshall amps I’d see at concerts when I was a kid. I must be having flashbacks!

Sealed subs sound wonderful and have a massive mean ass bass attack without cuffing. And that is not to say all ported subs have cuffing. I especially like and prefer forward firing subs.

The PSA sub appears to be geared more towards home theater.

Hey @big_greg and @ smodtactical

That couldn't be farther from the truth. I'm here to tell you that psa subs have a uncanny ability to disappear with sheer musicality when they're playing music with any gear at any price point. Tom Vodhanel of psa doesn't even advertise his speakers. They are sold by word of mouth. That should speak volumes. Remember Tom Vodhanel was the V in SVS subs. My PSA V1801's are an astounding value and I use them primarily for music.

I gotta go with millercarbon on this one. Let's say you've got the biggest and baddest sub on the planet, you're only gonna turn the gain up what 2,3 or 4 maybe? Because you're going to set the gain and volume to what's comfortable to you and you listening pleasure right?

Guess what happens when you add 1 more sub to equal 2? And then you add 2 more let's say at the back of your listening room, mancave, theater room or whatever - spread out somewhat for a total of 4. Suddenly you're enveloped by smooth bass all around you where you actually don't have to turn the gain on your bass subs up much at all to get the distributed array benefits of beautiful bass.

It's just another way of thinking (or technique) when using subs. It didn't click for me for a long time, but when it did...You don't need monster subs like the PSA S7201 to get the best bass. Although, 2 PSA S701's equal 4 subs and the effect of 4 subs will be realized there too! 

Oh ok, thanks again BigG! In that case I would recommend @smodtactical to get vented subs - and chose a manufacturer, shop or store that will let you hear them whether it be walk in and or has a decent return policy.

Also note that audio stores that are still open - now will a great time to go and listen as hardly no customers will be frequenting the store and you may get a chance to hear the differences between a sealed, vented or ported sub in a very quiet place to judge for yourself.

But if you do get a chance to hear a vented, ported or sealed sub - do so. Don’t take ours or anyone else’s word as a fact. Listen for yourself.

@luisma31,

I agree with you and want to expound further. I think it has always been a misnomer that ported and vented subs are better home theater and sealed subs are better for music. They both can be used for either with excellent results. A high quality sub regardless of port/vent or sealed will always sound better than a sub of less quality and design. I don’t think a mechanical sub (vented/ported) will outperform a non mechanical sub (sealed) of less quality, period.

Maybe the ’sealed vs ported/vented’ thing was used for pure selling points of the two different subs as they both sound good when done by a good designer in any situation? I don’t know.

@b_limo brought up Tekton subs and I see where their top tier subs use a proprietary sub structure known as a ’Tesla Valve’ to vent the sub enclosure with a ’patent pending design as a set of restricted flow vents, which combines the benefits of both sealed and conventional ported designs’.

I would enjoy a chance to here some of those Tekton subs but at this time are only available by internet store with a high return shipping price which may or maynot be to much for some.

But if you’re just starting to think about investing in subs and haven’t made an initial investment, Tekton with their Tesla Valve designed subs just maybe the way to go too?

I found the same with my 4 AK subs

I had PSA before, very powerful subs

for two channel systems definitely a swarm or array provides what you are looking for, you can select from existing of the shelf subs or go custom, a big part of it is how are you planning to integrate the 4 (minimal qty) subs,

I went custom and currently running 4 passive subs and could not be happier

@luisma31,

Would you mind describing your setup and the AudioKinesis gear used?

Duke,

I’m very close to becoming a customer in the future but can a customer use their own passive subwoofers of choice? Or do I have to use AudioKinesis designed passive speakers for best results? As I'm trying to understand if you would need to 'customize' your swarm peripherals, amps, speaker wire, crossovers and any other hardware to work with the subs a customer may propose. Or if you can or cannot do such a thing? I'm asking these questions with complete respect and sincerity of what you do and have accomplished and am just curious?

Duke,

Your above easy to follow, in concise in layman like terms of DBA are very welcome, needed and surprisingly understandable. Some months ago I took millercarbon’s advice and read:

Optimal Bass Palyback In Small Rooms By Earl Geddes
Why multiple subwoofers in sound reproduction?
GedLee.com - GedLee LLC Papers by Earl Geddes

And ever since then I came to understand to NOT

’judge bass by it’s level despite the fact that some bass levels are not at all natural or neutral’.

In Earl Geddes ’Why Multiple Subs?’ papers - when I read:

1) If there are corners, then one sub should probably go in a corner. Corners have the unique characteristic of see all of the modes. But using two corners is not an effective use of two subs because the symmetrical situation makes these two sources less statistically independent. A less symmetrical location for the second sub would be better. 2) One of the subs should be relatively close to the mains, but not too close. Ideal here might be to locate the first sub close to the mains, but back in a corner, if in fact the mains are pulled out slightly from the wall behind them, as they should be. 3) The rest of the subs locations become far less important if the first two points above are adhered to.

Subwoofer requirements:

Because we are using 3 (or more) subwoofers, they do not need to be as powerful as a single subwoofer. Any decent active subwoofer (ported or closed design) with a 10" or bigger driver will do. It should have controls for.is

• level (continuously variable)
• low pass frequency (continuously variable)
• phase (switchable or continuously variable)
• parametric equalizer (optional)

It was if the subwoofer lesser deities themselves opened up to me and I tried the technique with only 2 subs at first. One in the left corner of the room closest to the mains and I moved the sub that was in the far right corner and place it asymmetrical out of the right corner and against the far right wall and noticed an improvement right away. Of course there’s more but I won’t’ go on.

Duke,
I’m just trying to let you know that because of your Swarm Subwoofer System I understand exactly what you have shown above NOW in a step by step manner to do the same thing in my own home and I say thank you.

It is extremely hard to convince some of us hard core bass heads that a very high level of gain, volume, headroom and ’mega bass’ are not needed for ’good bass’. But now I know.

There’s just one caveat, My subs do not have phase (switchable or continuously variable). My PSA subs have 2 pots for:

Time Delay from 0ms to 16ms and
Room Size from small to large

Theses PSA pots were made to be adjusted by ear.
How do and where should the adjustment be made with the 2 above pots
with the multiple sub (4 or more) equation?

smodtactical,

I and others here did not intend to hijack your OP. Thank you for being so patient with us as this kind of bass stuff is very revelatory.

@luisma31,

Outstanding room and rig indeed! I too have PSA and SVS subs that may be going up for sale. 

Duke,
I have been to the Swarm website this weekend but did not see the Azel's? Could you give me a link to the Azel's and any other of your products I may have missed please. Thanks!

@audiorusty

Yes big sub woofers are viable for 2 channel music.

I am also of the belief that quantity of subs is more important than which brand of sub. I believe any decent brand will work well.

That's good to know. It's also good to know you can use any brand of sub used together as part of the multiple.

Funny, I got a in very good condition 'vintage' SVS PB12 Plus/2 with the rare 12.3 subwoofers but I'm waiting on Tom V to put out his new 12" subs. I don't think it would be a good idea to use the SVS PB12 Plus/2 as the sub to raise up and elevate since it weighs 165 lbs.

Gain
Delay
Crossover
Room Size

big_greg,

I have my V801's crossovers set at 100hz and as I said before they disappear when playing. It could also just be the synergy with my almost vintage Miller & Kreisel MPS 2510 passive studio monitors with 2 midrange woofers and 3 tweeters each speaker. I'm gonna set the sub that's farthest away at 80hz and listen for awhile.