Are audiophiles still out of their minds?


I've been in this hobby for 30 years and owned many gears throughout the years, but never that many cables.  I know cables can make a difference in sound quality of your system, but never dramatic like changing speakers, amplifiers, or even more importantly room treatment. Yes, I've evaluated many vaunted cables at dealers and at home over the years, but never heard dramatic effect that I would plunk $5000 for a cable. The most I've ever spent was $2700 for pair of speaker cables, and I kinda regret it to this day.  So when I see cable manufacturers charging 5 figures for their latest and "greatest" speaker cables, PC, and ICs, I have to ask myself who buys this stuff. Why would you buy a $10k+ cable, when there are so many great speakers, amplifiers, DACs for that kind of money, or room treatment that would have greater effect on your systems sound?  May be I'm getting ornery with age, like the water boy says in Adam Sandler's movie.
dracule1

Showing 9 responses by whart

I did own a Lamborghini (a 6.0 Diablo in Rosso Vik over snow corn with exposed carbon fibre wing) and can tell you:
1. The kind of women that wanted you to take them away were not very appealing to me (I'm married, so it is a moot point anyway);
2. The parts game was a gouge- a door gasket was something like a grand; my mechanic, who specialized in the marque, fabricated one for less than 200 U.S. installed; the shocks for the rear--two on each wheel, failed regularly- those cost about $1,900 a piece, only to fail again. Some owners gave up and put a completely different shock/modified suspension in the car at considerable cost to avoid the constant replacement of the factory shock system.
3. The car was largely undriveable- a big, heavy, grand touring type autobahn monster, not a nimble, carve canyon corners kind of drive.
4. All that said, it was a huge bang for the buck exotic when others cost even more for the some level of "exoticness." The interior was gorgeous, and the view of the rear--with those insanely fat tires and twin exhaust pipes sticking up above the rear bumper-which could melt due to the heat if you drove the car in traffic--was a statement of pure aggression. But the car, which began in some ways as the original Countach, had lost its purity of line.  By this time, Audi had purchased the company, which had always had a rocky ownership history. Audi rationalized the manufacture and ultimately improved the car but when it transitioned to the Murciélago, it also lost some of its Italianatte  flair. The 6.0 was in some ways the last gasp of the Gandini design. 
5. Cables- no comment. :) Buy what makes you happy. Life is too short to do otherwise. 
Geoff- you'll get no argument from me. In fact, the endless quest is just that. 
bill hart
The money issue is a little bit of a red herring. I’ve been to people’s homes with expensive gear in place, but very poor set-up, and no thought to maximizing what the person has--I’m not talking about expensive tweaks, but basic stuff, like layout, AC power, turntable set-up and isolation, room treatment, etc. I’m sure all of you have had the experience of hearing a system that doesn’t purport to be state of the art that sounds great, because care was taken in the selection and set up of the components as a system in a given room.
For someone at home, striving to get the best sound obtainable-- that last 5% is often challenging and as I think Mike Lavigne said here somewhere, often makes the biggest difference once everything else is dialed in. Cables can be part of the equation- not necessarily the most expensive, but the ones that make the system shine with the fewest negatives. I’m not an absolutist about any of this- if you think old WE cable, or some very basic, inexpensive product sounds good in your system, go for it.
This hobby started as DIY and I respect the people who are willing to do the work on that level too, rather than just buying the latest sonic bauble. In the long run, I’d bet some of us have spent more money on switching gear, "upgrading," changing components and buying modestly priced "tweaks" over the years that are now in the graveyard of forgotten audio than the cost of some fancy cable. Anybody doing this hobby for any length of time realizes that they are really doing it for themselves- few family members or outsiders are going to care much one way or the other. I appreciate the lure of "OMG, this cable will change your life," but hopefully, most of us have been around long enough to realize that you have to make evaluations based on listening in your system, hopefully over enough time to hear not only the "positives" of any change, but the negatives as well.
Remember how, in the old Absolute Sound days when Harry P. was in top form, and he would write about a component that had no sonic signature, was absolutely revealing, and gave him a entirely new perspective on the rest of the gear? And some issues later, that same piece of gear was revealed to be flawed in some way? (Not faulting HP, it was the nature of his adventure, in those days, and was quite fun to read about). But, that elusive chase for the ideal? The pinnacle? At some point --at least for me--it is a tail chasing exercise and consumes more money, time and effort than the results. I think if you buy good gear, it can give pleasure for a long time. That might include cables that, after evaluation, seem to "gel" with your particular combination of components and your ears. At that point, it can be money well spent if it enables you to use the system for its intrinsic purpose, rather than listening solely to figure out what needs to be improved. Not an easy place to get to-- but we all have that point of diminishing returns where expectations, money, research, time and effort lead us (or ought to lead us) to a place where we say "hey, this sounds really great- I know where the weaknesses are, and I’m happy with the cost/benefit I’ve struck to get there." That point is obviously a very individual choice, and depends as much on the obsessive nature of the enthusiast as it does on their finances. I would assume, perhaps wrongly, that some reason and judgement goes into drawing those lines for each of us. 
Don't take the "percentages" as literal, folks. I don't, and perhaps I didn't make that clear enough in my earlier post. 
CZ- you lost me on that one, but next time the dinner check comes, I'll let you calculate what I owe. :)
"An ordinary man has no means of deliverance."
Au contraire, mon frère. 
You already mentioned the "used" route. Remember when "upgrade" didn't mean "flavor of the month" but the gradual building of a system over time? For some of us of an age, I started in high school, and built my system further while in college. I didn't really have much money to spend on gear, but it took priority over other things someone else might spend their disposable income on. When the SP-11 preamp came out in in the late '80s, I bought an SP-10 mk ii, which wasn't cheap, but to me, worth every dollar. By then, I had a decent job, but it was still real money to me. 
Some folks I know who have true wealth wouldn't spend a fraction of this on audio gear (maybe that's why they are wealthy, but they have different priorities). Others- some poor as church mice-- have killer systems, built over the years. (Yes, they had inside prices working in the industry, or spent judiciously, but were hardly "rich.").  
To me, the real answer to all of this is to do your own evaluations, find the bargains or overlooked pieces of gear on the used market and make your own decisions on what sounds "right" without following the herd. The DIY camp--which I really am not adept at because I lack vital skills--is where a lot of the action is. 

At best, you could say that the thread:
-helped us recognize that many cables are perceived to be overpriced
-acknowledged (I think) that there are sonic differences among cables, but
-the high priced spread isn't necessarily always "the best" for some people.
It also helped us see that 
-the subject of cables is a seemingly endless controversy, and one that won't likely be resolved soon, by this thread or otherwise, owing in part to the fact that the perceived results among cable seems to vary, depending on listener and system;
-that some folks who have higher priced cable that have chimed in here (not necessarily a good, representative sample of anything) don't feel ripped off by spending money on cables to achieve synergy with their systems, whereas 
Dracula and perhaps a few others (I didn't have the energy to wade through it all again) have used "fancy" cable and concluded that they get better results from less expensive cable products.
There have been a few attempts to describe the science, but I'm not sure it adequately describes why different cables sound different or work more synergistically with some equipment than others.
Frankly, I'm always interested in opposing views. The sniping gets in the way of productive discussion, in my estimation. 
grm- sounds like you are a smart fellow. Glad there is fresh blood coming into the hobby-we often bemoan the fact that no younger people are "into" hi-fi, but it sounds like you are focused and thoughtful. This hobby can bring great joy on a number of levels. 
bill hart