ARC Ref 75 vs. Ref 75 SE

Bdp24 ... you wrote "why so many ARC? Brooks' tech Tom told me he was constantly repairing ARC power amps because when a tube blows in one of them it often takes with it some of the circuit board parts. The tubes aren't fused---ARC uses resistors and capacitors in that role!"

Nonsense!! I have owned 3 and half ARC amps over the last "n" years: VS-110, VS-115, Ref 150 and currently, the Ref 150 SE.

Have tubes arced and taken out bias resisters?? Yes!! But how often?? Maybe once or twice a year. And since I've been using KT-120 and KT-150 power tubes, tube arcing has been a very rare occurrence.

Cost of repair is about $100. There's an ARC authorized tech who lives near me and who makes house calls.

Have other A'gon members reported very serious problems with the ARC amps? Yes, on rare occasion. But I don't recall the last reported occurrence.

Look ... if you want tubes, this is the cost of admission. Oh ... some might say other tube amp manufacturers use circuit breakers to protect the amp if there's a tube arc. True.

But ARC told me they prefer not to use circuit breakers because they believe it's an artifact they would prefer not to add to the circuit. Is that credible?? Haven't a clue. And frankly I don't care.

Cheers,

Bruce

My REF-75 SE now has 375 hours on it. As soon as it hit 300 hours, it really opened up. My early impressions here on AG were for an amp that wasn't broken in. Take my comments I made before and add 30% to my enthusiasm for this amp. What more of a recommendation can one make other than to say that a product far surpasses one's expectations? In the many years of enjoying this hobby, I've had a lot of amps, both solid state and tube. They've ranged from modified Dynaco amps MKIII's and ST-70's (in the early days) to Van Alstine, to
Counterpoint, to Atmosphere and various ARC amps including the Classic 60, a REF-75, and now the REF-75 SE. Nothing so far comes close in my experience to the New ARC SE's.

I wondered why there were always so many ARC power amps on the trade-in shelves at Brooks Berdan Ltd. Sure, he was a VTL, Jadis, and Mac dealer, so there would be trade-ins, but why so many ARC? Brooks' tech Tom told me he was constantly repairing ARC power amps because when a tube blows in one of them it often takes with it some of the circuit board parts. The tubes aren't fused---ARC uses resistors and capacitors in that role!

Brooks preferred to sell the Music Reference RM200 as his $5k amp, with hand-wound transformers (the heart of any tube power amp), wound by Roger if you pay him extra! 100w/ch from a pair of KT88/6150/KT120 tubes per, power increasing with diminishing impedance, the opposite of a normal tube amp. It sounded very good to Brooks, and Fremer likes it enough to put it in Class A. And with it, no costly, frequent update/upgrades (or, as I like to call them, corrections ;-). Roger works on his designs for years before putting them into production.

Even if you really want a REF75, think about trying to hear the RM200. I love mine.

Thanks very much for your response.

Thanks very much for your response and for pointing me in the right direction (Oregonpapa's posts). I'm hoping to replace my VT 100 mk. II with a used 75 and then upgrade to the SE

IMO, If a product is upgraded to "SE" or whatever within the warranty period of the original, the company should upgrade the original for the difference in price.

HKaye-

these ARC upgrades are worth your money, only if, you plan on keeping the gear for many years. I have had the listening pleasure of auditioning the Ref3 SE, Ref5 SE, and Ref75 SE models. All offer an outstanding value and is better defined across the board. Keep me posted & Happy Listening!

I can speak about the Ref 150 SE as compared to the "old" Ref 150. I upgraded my Ref 150 in March.

IMO, I think the SE upgrade effected an across the board improvement. I'd say half came from the KT-150 tubes and the other half came from the circuit changes. Bass is better defined. Better imaging and soundstage. Mids and treble sweeter and more open.

ARC charged me $5K for the upgrade. Pricey ... but I suppose it was worth it.

Hkaye ... take a look at Oregonpapa's posts about his Ref 75 SE. He's in 7th heaven.

Do you ever get the feeling that ARC deliberately leaves out the circuit refinements that they end up offering for each of their models a year or two or three after each new model is introduced? As a cynical way to create business in between truly new models?