ARC Ref 5se inferior to LS28?

My guess would be dealer speak, though it may also go all the way back to ARC marketing.

I recall when ARC released the LS27 the dealers were all buzzing that it was better than the Ref 3. So it would seem that whatever the current LS step would be will be better than the no longer available Reference level.

I predict that the LS29 will sound better than the Ref 6. That just seems to be ARC’s marketing campaign for years now.

It’s all about moving new stock. Newer is ALWAYS better you know. ;^)

@bdp24 , the downside of a long running product, for folks who buy on the used market, is possibility of old age. For example, if one is looking at buying a ARC LS27 preamp, they have a pretty good idea how old it is.
Now if one is looking to buy a A-S MP-3, or Cary SLP-98, or similar, it is much harder to determine the actual age/condition of the unit.
Yes, the unit may have had some upgrades, but some of the caps (etc), may be 15-20 years old.

Personally, I am more comfortable having a more accurate account on the age of a unit when shopping for used audio components. So I do not mind ARC's marketing scheme. YMMV.

+1 kalali. If they only knew how much money they were really spending just to have that warranty...

However, I differ from analogluvr in that I would be more inclined to buy a brand that continually offers new models, because I buy used gear.
Hence, my used unit would probably be "newer" than the other brand.

I'll gladly take hand me downs from those that love that new tube smell...

I agree with some of what @minorl says, especially when he talks about ARC holding it's resale value, and no one being forced to buy them.

I do not think that Pass Labs is in the same turnover ballpark though.
Nelson Pass' .8 series is basically his third version this century.

Pass Labs first X and XA series came out when ARC Ref 2 mk II was ARC's top of the line preamp. Since then, Pass Labs has had two more revisions, the .5 and the .8 series, while ARC has had 4 (Ref 3/5/5SE/6), not including the Anniversary or Ref 10 preamps.

A new design every 6-8 years, as Pass Labs has been doing, is a bit less turnover than a new model every 2-4 years as has been the ARC model.

There are not a few people that will buy something that costs 50K who would not touch exact same item were it priced at 25K .

Very true. There are a LOT of folks out there with FU money.

VAC’s top of the line products were less than $20K each until they released the Statement line a couple years ago, now each chassis will cost you $50K a pop.
And guess what? Folks are lining up and offering to pay more $$$ to have their VAC Statements made in custom colors. Go figure.

VAC is not alone, look at ARC’s Anniversary and Ref 10.
Just about every single manufacturer has a top of the line item today that is at least 2-3 times the price of their top of the line 8-10 years ago.

The audio industry is simply a reflection of the global economy. The rich keep getting richer, and the poor poorer. The industry is just chasing the money, by giving their clients what they want.

Anyone from Audio Research able to shed some light on the question?

That will not address the question either. Where do you think the "rumors" that the LS28 is 'superior' to the Ref 5SE are coming from?
That's like asking the fox if he will eat any of your chickens if you let him into your hen house, and expecting an honest answer.

ALL manufacturers will claim that their new current lineup is superior to their older, discontinued lineup, or they don't stay in business very long.
The marketing idea, is to sell current product, not discontinued product.

I would agree if we were discussing a comparison of the Ref 6 and Ref 5SE, or LS28 and LS27.  I've not yet seen ARC claim a new LS is better than a recently discontinued Ref series.

I've seen/heard it before Larry. Same thing happened around 5-6 years ago, when the buzz was that the LS27 was better than the Ref 3. Same marketing technique.

There are a lot of good points here but the most important one I think is simply older can be every bit as good as newer sometimes better.

@jond , +1, I agree. Interesting how when a "good" new unit comes out, there is no upgrade for around 5 years (eg. Ref 3).
However, when a new release receives luke-warm reception, and may not be a step forward, a second model follows within a couple of years (eg. Ref 2/2mk II, and Ref 5/5SE).

ARC is not alone here, I recall when Cary released the popular V12 amp. A few years later they followed it up with the V12I, which many saw as a step backward. They quickly replaced it with the V12R which most felt brought back the goodness of the original V12.

@hk_fan , +1. Mere marketing tactics, nothing more.
ARC seems more prone to this hyperbole, and model turnover, than other companies though.

Now that is not to say that the LS models aren't 90% of the performance of the REF models. The law of diminishing returns hits very early in audio gear, and no manufacturer is immune. I would bet that the REF 6 gives you 90% of the performance of the REF 10.

My Transfiguration Phoenix S cartridge gives 90% of the performance of the Transfiguration Proteus. The same for my Allnic H1201 phono stage, 90% performance level of the Allnic H3000. Etc., etc., etc.

In the end, most folks pay a LOT of money for that small increase in performance. How much difference they spend, depends on how much they value the dollar versus how much they value the music.

It's an individual choice that we all make.