|
I'll save Tvad the trouble of reading my comments on the M-225's (as I owned the stereo version D-225).
My advice is to call TRL and arrange to get a pair. Listen for yourself. If you don't like them send the amps back for a refund. Pretty simple really. |
Posts in other threads have stated that in-home trials are not offered by TRL, so I have never pursued it.
Tvad (Threads | Answers) Why rely on what's posted in other threads? Why not call TRL directly and ask them about a return privilege? I assume based on statements you've made in this thread (and others) that you've called other manufacturers about their equipment and return privileges. What's stopping you from picking up the phone and calling TRL? If anything you could get the information direct from the source and post it here for all to benefit. Unless TRL policy has been changed,from my dealings with them money back guarantees were the norm. Maybe someone else can chime in and verify one way or the other. Gammajo - feel free to contact me offline if you care to discuss TRL products. I owned the D-225, and still own the battery powered Pre-1.5. I'll also be getting a Dude early next year. I'll try to help you in any way I can, as I have for other who have contacted me about TRL, including Rx8man who posted here. |
You sabotaged my attempt to hear the amps out of
sour grapes, it seems.
Tvad (Threads | Answers) I don't get that statement at all and it's the furthest thing from the truth. Any attempt to hear these amps is a business transaction between you and TRL solely. I do agree with you that the comparison being planned by Rx8man will be productive, and based on my previous conversations with him about it, am looking forward to it myself. IIRC Grannyring has done some comparisons as well and will be posting what should be quite an informative review. These events combined should definitely provide enough information for others to benefit from. Keep us posted Rx8man. |
TVAD, is that what I said?
One must also consider past history. Isn't there an APL thread you can go play on?
BTW - for the rest following this thread some other information from Paul that was provided to Tvad in the second paragraph of his email response (which Tvad omitted) and that might be of interest:
"The amp is single-nded (rca) on the input, and normal
dual-Cardas output posts. It does around 300W into 8 ohm,
about double that for 4-ohm loads, and not sure what it does at 2. We've never heard it clip or distort. I can tell
when my $140K GTR800 amp starts compressing bass when played real loud with a tough load."
So it appears that the amp will increase power into tougher loads.
I think Grannyring's testament is quite revealing of what to expect when you own any TRL gear. This coming from someone who has posted an impressive list of equipment that they had previous to TRL.
Bill - glad you're enjoying the cables. Quite the monster's aren't they with all that solid core copper. Any thought to trying a set of TRL speakers? |
Tvad, you felt it was important to post the first paragraph. What was wrong with the second paragraph? You had nothing to lose by posting it. After all it was you who said in an earlier post that you understood that TRL amps did not increase power into more difficult loads. Do the M-225 double power as impedance is halved?
My understanding is they do not. Paul Weitzel answered your question and you omitted the answer. You owed it to the readers of this thread to post the entire response from Paul Weitzel. I don't blame you for not wanting to try something before you buy. However, as you said let's move on. Now go find a APL post to play on would you. No more whining about your request being rejected by TRL. You and I both know the history here. Not to mention, you have no direct experience with TRL equipment and can't contribute anything meaningful to this thread in that regard. |
Rx8man, I hope you get to try the amps soon and can post your impressions. |
Arthursmuck I've sent you an email through Audiogon.
BTW - Nice VAC gear. |
Great news Bill. Glad you're enjoying them. |
It's an amazing thing to hear a TRL component break in. Just when you think everything is set and you've heard all it can deliver- bam - you get more. Leaves you shaking your head a lot. |
Actually its Tube Research Labs. Their website won't tell you much. Best to call them at 509-787-5405. |
It is not Class D, although you are correct that regarding heat distribution it resembles a Class D design. Sonically IMO that is not the case.
It is a well known fact that information and specs on TRL components is hard to come by. While Paul Weitzel measures his equipment the main design goal is the end result which is always about the sound. It is also well documented that specs don't always tell the whole story about a particular component, TRL or others.
So with that said from what I've been able to gather the design is biased Class A up to a certain point, then A/B. Another tidbit that I discovered is that from a current draw this amp design is incredibly efficient. The capacitance within the amp also factors in an immense storage capacity for reserve power when required. That in part is why I think many can equate the sound of this amp to a live experience. Transients are amazing and the amp responds in lightning quick fashion.
The amp is dead quiet and the new power supply design is supposed to be the best yet. Not that the old one or the battery power supplies were shabby either. One thing I can say is Paul has an excellent understanding of electricity and power supplies. Also as a recording engineer he certainly has his own understanding and opinions on live sound. |
Fiddler, so are you saying that these are Class D amps or that these just sound like Class D amps?
FWIW, I've heard a few Class D amps and while they have sounded very good (especially for the money), none exhibited the sound of my TRL D-225.
I have found the Class D amps I have heard to be very transparent, neutral, and they are very efficient. However, they lacked a very key component IMO to what the TRL offers and that is presenting the music in a very natural life like manner. There could be Class D amps that do this, but none that I have heard. I think its why tube preamps are a good match for Class D amps.
Tvad and others with interest. For some time due to intellectual property concerns the D-225/ST-225/M-225 amps were "locked down" and unable to be opened. Now that those concerns have been addressed the amps innards can be viewed. I was just on the phone with a new Samson owner the other day who gave me a very detailed description of what was inside. From my previous knowledge and experience it was consistent with what I already knew and provided some additional insight on the design. |
The "D" in D-225 stood for Dual Mono. Another unique design feature of TRL amps/preamps is the use of a high quality breaker switch in lieu of fuses. When powering on my D-225 you could hear the dual power supplies engage.
In addition to Grannyring's comments about the new power supply I would add that Paul Weitzel has always eschewed negative feedback. Many transistor designs utilize some amount of negative feedback, but not the TRL designs. Paul has also addressed the issue of ground noise in his designs. Another reason these amps are dead quiet.
The Audio Circle thing has been beaten to death. You just have to make your own personal call on that. As evidenced by people like Grannyring and Interlochen who have purchased these amps and whose other components past and present speak for themselves, sometimes you just have to take a chance on things. In this case neither has been disappointed from what I can tell. |
Standard TRL rule of thumb is 400 hours break in. You should do this by leaving the equipment on 24/7 and running a signal through it. From my experience it does not have to be at low level volume. I burned in my D-225 by playing a CD on repeat when I wasn't listening. I'd change the CD every now and again. I would use a burn in CD once a month, but this was for the entire system in general. The Granite Audio CD is a inexpensive and easy one to use. |
Dave,
My experience in general when breaking in any component, except for speakers, is that volume does not to be turned up for break in to occur. I do know some people who have told me running different levels of signals is helpful, but not from my experience. Just running a signal through is good enough. Of course power to the components being broken in must be turned on. Speakers on the other hand need some volume to work out the drivers. Here running different signal levels is helpful.
Now there are those who suggest running equipment 24 x 7 is not the way to do it but rather run the equipment in a cycle. For example, 12 hours on, 3 hours off. I never tried it that way so can't say one way or another if that is more effective.
As for break in CDs, the test tones that cover the entire frequency range are a good primer for the system. Sort of like giving it a work out. Some of the tracks are referred to as "torture tracks" and you can see why if you look at your woofer during the playback. A lot of the music we play does not cover the breadth of the frequency range like a break in CD does. You're basically giving your system a huge dose in a short period of time when you use a break in CD.
The break in CDs are good for components and cables. In fact Dale Pitcher who manufacturers your speakers uses one (I thing the Purist Audio CD). However, he warns against using it on repeat for extended periods as it imparts a sonic flavor of its own on the system, especially cabling. |
I know what I heard but I will make one correction to my statement. Instead of "flavor" Dale used the term "sonic signature." Same thing IMO although some may disagree. The advice was imparted to me by Dale as I was breaking in a set of his Mosaic Chimera cables, of which I own 2 pairs of interconnects and a set of speaker cables (so I speak from experience). He recommended the PAD CD but not to use it on repeat to break in his cables. I opted for the Granite Audio CD but I still used it in the manner Dale suggested.
For the benefit of all, Dale Pitcher is the owner of Intuitive Audio Design and formerly affiliated with Essence Audio. His speaker and equipment designs are legendary and even his older Essence gear is still sought out by audiophiles.
Dale's designs enjoy a cult status among audiophiles for good reason. Sort of like Paul Weitzel at TRL. It's refreshing to hear about the synergy that Interlochen describes between his Intuitive Audio speakers and TRL amps. I've been in contact with 2 other Intuitive Design speaker owners who are also very interested in the Samson's. You just can't keep good news from traveling fast, no matter how hard you try. |
