Sean...Ah. Too too long ago, and I never did compare the two before updating the Linn. I noticed that after moving to the Anniversary Ringmat, now I hear my fireplace rattling during certain loud passages. Oddly classical guitar drives the metal crazy. I cannot remember ever having isolation problems with the AR, but everything was different back then. |
I'd like to add also.I had so much material left over I could have made 4 Ringmats for <$5 |
Sean wrote "no fancy packaging"
Sean-The packaging costs more to make than the ringmat!..You should see it! Thick,high gloss paper folder with sleeves.Vibrant colors,cool designs on it.Lots of inserts and included in one folder,the Ringmat!
I bought one several years ago,so maybe they have cut costs these days and just give you a generic folder,dont know.
I used it on my P-25 but I did not hear an improvment over felt.
Before I sent it back to Audio Advisor,I went to a hobby shop.I bought thick paper just like the ringmat,a sheet of cork the same thickness as the ringmat cork and a hobby knife.
3 hours later I had a diy ringmat that looked almost exactly the same as the big guy.
I tried my diy ringmat on my P-25 and got a noticable improvement in bass.Go figure.
Total cost <$5 but no fancy folder for it. |
Aceto: I was just asking questions about the differences between the AR and the Linn. I did not know if your LP-12 was a relatively "bare bones" stock model or a heavily updated model. I would have been curious to see how those two tables in base form compared to each other. Sean
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Would anyone recommend a Ringmat or a felt mat for an acrylic platter eg Clearaudio Emotion ?
Many thanks |
I had the Aniversary Ringmat on my P25 and liked the results. Improved definition and bass. I did not like it on my Spacedeck. |
My AR is the ES-1. By stock, the Linn has had all the factury additions, so what do you have in mind there? Just remove the new Ringmat and use the old one? As for floor-borne, this house has none that get through the stand. I can jump up and down. But I can switch the tables and check for the air-borne. I was getting something on the Linn with the old Ringmat on certain passages when really loud. I have never had the AR in this system. |
Aceto, i have a question for you if you don't mind. Which model AR turntable do you have and between the AR and the Linn, both in stock form placed on the same support surface, which one is more susceptable to air-borne acoustic feedback and / or heavy footfalls / floor-borne vibrations? Sean
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Mlbattey, I have mine on a marble block, but I added Black Diamond cones on top of the marble, and topped it with a their pure carbon graphite "shelf". I also have a concrete slab plus carpet, but my stands terminate in spikes through the carpet. I would still be concerned that your Bryston anchor does not defeat all of the vibration that can ascend the stand anyway. Vibration is pernicous and follows any available path. But if you are following the above, my TT is so flawed in design that all countermeasures are mere band-aids on the real problem. |
sean....or anyone ..... setting your TT on a marble block? Is that supposed to help? My rack is heavy and with the 80lb Bryston amp on the bottom shelf would seem to be enough??????My room is on a concrete slab plus carpet. |
Simon: The Oracle is the table i had in mind when talking about doing it better than the Linn to begin with. I also agree that "wobbly feet" aren't good things under a table. Sean
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Hi Sean/Aceto,
All this about the Ringmat being a band aid?
I have no axe to grind other than I use them on two vastly differing tables.I have tried all sorts of mats and still prefer these to anything I have tried(on two of my tables).
I agree they might be overpriced so after deciding I prefered the 'presentation' bought the second one used.
Check out the Shindo labs and various others for seriously overpriced mats.
I reckon there's more labour in a ringmat than a circle cut from a sheet of carbon fibre mat that costs $300+.
A mat, like an arm or cartridge will alter the sound but not nearly as much as what the table is sited on.
Both Linn & Xerxes sound much better on a wall shelf mounted to a solid outside wall as opposed to a table/rack.
IMO opinion the Xerxes mini table should have been part of the table and the Trampolin is a piece of utter nonsense.
Heavy/massy shelves are contrary to Linn's philosophy as is a second suspension system (what the h--l are wobbly feet if not the former?)
The table that really made my jaw drop was an Oracle Delphi/Sumiko/Koetsu but that was 20 years ago and the sound my Linn or Xerxes make after lots of work & tweaking just makes me wonder
a)how they would compare to the Oracle ?
b)how can I get my cd player (which I love) to close the gap and sound as much like 'real' musicians in the room ?
The first is not easy to answer here as dollars go straight to pounds and an Oracle costs £3,200 here in it's basic form.
Results with home made Lenco plinths have caused me to question the money I have tied up in the tables I already have - this is not knocking the manufacturers - they have their overheads.
I just wonder what would be achieveable by virtue of DIY when you look at the old Empire used by Atmasphere - if guys who make amps as radical as their products decide to spend that kind of money 'tarting' up a relic, there must be some merit.
Horses for courses, the more of the wall the better and as long as it's pleasing on the ears.
Jeez, wine & posting :
Aceto, if you can get a Cetech carbon fibre sub chassis for the Linn, try it. It cures most of the negatives laid against the Linn sound and is fairly cheap compared to Cirkus & Lingo mods, which to my mind are way overpriced for the advantage gained.
SME's and Avid's make me wonder if a metal guitar would sound as sterile??
Si |
Linn's have never been known for having adequate isolation from vibration. By themselves, they are prone to skipping tonearms and cartridges across the disc if one is not careful. All i will say is that turntable design has come a LONG way since the design of the Linn, and even then, there were tables that were better than the Linn. Having said that and as you know, marketing is a powerful tool when it comes to high end audio.
I have reviews where they compared a few different tables in terms of their ability to resist acoustic feedback and the Linn was the worst of the bunch. In comparison, the table that was at the top of the list measured some 40 to 50 dB's better in terms of isolation. Not only does this equate to a lower noise floor and the ability to produce more resolution from within the same grooves, it also means the ability to play much louder in the listening room without losing that level of resolution.
As a side note, you might want to look into a different type of support system underneath your table. Constrained layer damping is far more effective than sheer mass in most every case. As such, i would lose some of the "rigidity" of materials underneath the player while still finding a way to keep things level.
Using this approach, not only will you put another absorbent boundary between floor-borne vibrations and the table itself, you'll have made an "energy sink" that the table itself can drain air-borne vibration into. This would be much cheaper than replacing the table itself, which is the ultimate solution to the problem you mentioned. Sean
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Sean, that makes sense about air-borne. I have good isolation from the floor. At least I think I do, because I have added a stand with legs terminating in spikes, a heavy marble slab, Black Diamond cones with their carbon graphite shelf on top, and the added Linn suspension (trampolinn?)and have seen stepwise improvement. So if the ringmat is a band-aid for the air-borne vibration, what is the non-band-aid approach? Or have I got this all wrong? Do you tink Linn has inherent design flaws that another maker has solved? I would not want to invest in a whole new rig. |
Aceto's comments would lead one to believe that the Ringmat improved the vinyl to cartridge interface by negating some of the effects of either floor-borne vibration and / or air-borne vibration due to the increased spl levels he mentioned. This is exactly what i was getting at in my previous post i.e. the Ringmat is acting as a "band aid" for the lack of proper energy control in the turntable design and installation itself. As such, it might be a viable alternative to replacing a TT system that you already have and are already happy with, but there may be other side-effects that this "tweak" brings with it. Nothing is a "cure-all" without having some other side effects that one has to deal with. Sean
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I have used the Ringmat in two models for ten years on my Linn. I bought the Anniversary to move the previous Ringmat to my AR table. The Anniversary improved performance when playing very loudly a series of passages that have always had trouble. After years of improving the isolation, connections, etc. the expense was well worth the extension of performance. I would have to spend a great deal to upgrade my Linn, and I rather buy more expensive new releases. |
My experience is that the poorer the suspension of the table, the more beneficial the Ringmat will be. Tables that can't properly drain air-borne vibrations or lack isolation from floor-borne energy may respond positively to tweaks like the Ringmat.
The arm / cartridge tracking across a record with / without the Ringmat is kind of like someone walking across a floor that is rock solid in terms of consistent support or a floor that is "springy" due to having limited support with the supports spaced a distance apart. Obviously, one of these will be far more consistent in terms of what to expect in terms of "sure-footedness" ( tracking and vibration ) whereas the other is going to introduce variables into the equation. It is for this reason that tables that are more advanced / suffer less from microphony and smearing due to vibration induced resonances won't take too well to this type of device.
With that in mind, i would recommend avoiding the $60 - $130 expense on one of these items and investing that towards a better turntable and / or turntable installation. After all, you are talking about a piece of cardboard with a few rings of cork glued to it. I'm NOT saying that "tweaks" don't or can't work. What i am getting at is whether or not this "tweak" is really worth the money. Could you find a more effective way to combat the problems that this tries to address? Personally, I think so. Sean
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PS... No weight to transport, no fancy packaging required, minimal outlay in terms of production materials, etc... Must be a helluva profit margin in something like this. No wonder the places selling it recommend it so highly. |
Ringmat was HUGE improvemtn on my Systemdek XII and (not as) HUGE improvment in my Rega 3. Seems to improve most tables- But you gotta listen & like the results |
Hi there,
Sorry, I don't go into in depth analytical postings but I use Ringmats on both my Roksan Xerxes and my Linn Sondek.
Far cleaner sound than the standard felt mats.
Tighter bass, better detail & staging.
I have never had any problems with subsonics and I use a sub and like to play loud !
I usually use a couple of small blobs of bluetack to stick the ringmat to the platter.
The Anniversary mat is supposedly better but costs a lot more.
I have tried a few other mats of heavier varieties but these usually finish up being glued to the platters of my homemade Lencos which the heavier mass seems to suit.
Hope this helps.
Simon |
I have used, on my Rega P-9 with Benz Ref silver mc, the stock felt, Audioquest sorbothane mat, and the regular (not anniversary) Ringmat. I have used the Audioquest sorbothane mat for over a decade, but now prefer the Ringmat.
The Ringmat is a tad leaner in the upper bass, but is "faster", a little crisper and a little more detailed from mids to highs than the sorbothane. Both are better than the stock felt. Overall I think the Ringmat is an improvement over stock and recommend it. with ONE condition:
I have several speakers I use on my LP system, when I hook up my big JBL L-200's (15" drivers) a howling acoustic feedback occurs around 250-300 hz or so, apparently resonating the hollow area under the Ringmat's paper and cork. I have never experienced this with any other mats, but it is just with this speaker, which plays VERY loud and forcefully. |
