Anyone notice different amounts of surface noise with different arms?


Using the same cartridge, I just went from an SME 3012R to a Bokrand AB309 and while the Bokrand is no doubt a better sounding arm in my system, I’m definitely hearing more surface noise. Records are cleaned with a Degritter so it’s not dirt... but the arm picks up more of the noise from my older records.

dhcod

Showing 8 responses by richardbrand

Ivor Tiefenbrun of Linn would not agree that "all the best arms of similar mass sound exactly the same" unless you define "the best" as those that sound the same! He was notorious for throwing records around during demonstrations, in part to show that scratches, pops and crackles were far less obvious with Linn products. He went to enormous lengths to minimise free play between the record and the stylus, for example by using the same grade of stainless steel so bearings and other components expanded and contracted at the same rate, and therefore could be adjusted to very tight tolerances. Propagation of unwanted impulses was suppressed, especially compared with popular arms such as those by SME, who did not make turntables at that time.
I am assuming the same cartridge in both arms, correctly aligned.

The name "tone-arm" says it all!  If they are neutral, they would be called pick-up arms or similar.

May I make a suggestion!  To eliminate cartridge set up variables, play a silent track, that is one containing no musical information, so no VTA adjustment, tracking force, or overhang comes into the equation.  The groove contains nothing but inherent vinyl noise, plus any extraneous wear and tear.  I use a test disk from Analogue Productions "The ultimate analogue test LP". 

The output is turntable noise plus record noise.  For analysis, I feed the microphone output from my pre-amplifier into the audio jack on my laptop, using the first free (home use only) analysis software I found on the web, WavePad by NCN Software.

Come to think of it, I have not seen a waterfall graph published for ages - about the time magazines stopped publishing useful stuff like speaker impedance curves.

@mijostyn You seem to rely a lot on imagination and thought experiments, but are reluctant to believe in the resonance properties of structures like tonearms.  Don't forget that at one end of the tonearm is a highly sensitive transducer that picks up vibrations including resonances from the tonearm and cartridge body!

In my opinion, if you want to minimise distortion you are far better off with well-recorded CDs or better still SACDs.  Before you claim digital distortion, remember that virtually all records made in the last few decades have been made using digital intermediaries.

The qualification "well-recorded" is deliberate, because it seems to be very easy to produce a poor-quality CD.  It is hard to mix digitally without significant rounding errors.  SACD is a good indication that the performing artists and sound engineers have really tried!

My personal exploration back into vinyl is inspired by the high prices offered for old Garrard 301 transcription turntables and the astonishing rebound of record sales.

@mijostyn Seems as if we are furious agreement on most things!  My stereo was stolen just after CDs came out, and just before I did a round-world trip.  I called unannounced on Quad in Huntington, UK and met Peter Walker.  I asked him what he thought of these new-fangled CDs and he said they were fantastic.  So I bought a pair of Quad electrostatic speakers, pre-amp and amp in the UK and a CD player in Singapore.  On that trip, my dad gave me his Garrard 301 turntable with SME 3009 arm and Shure V15 cartridge, but I have not bought a record (except test disks) since.

I am in this mainly for the music, which in my case is predominantly large-scale orchestral. My curiosity in vinyl was piqued by the high prices the Garrard can command, so I thought I'd spend a bit of time and money to give it a good shot at impressing me.  Like you, I am astonished at the plinths available which do not include covers.  My Garrard is in a 1970s hollow plinth from SME, with a suspended mounting board.  I am building an internal plinth to basically fill up the hollows.  By raising or lowering the internal plinth, I expect to be able to switch between a fully solid plinth and a suspended design.

Results so far are promising, in the sense that I sometimes think to myself "If I heard this playing at a hi-fi show I would be impressed".

@mijostyn My gut feel is that you are right, but I do have a few records not available on silver disk that carry deep meaning for me on the rare occasions that I play them.  Then there is all the hype about analogue versus digital which I'd like to get to the bottom of!
Can I ask what your table, arm, cartridge and phono stage are, please?

@mijostyn Thanks for the list!  One or the early upgrades I thought about was putting a Jico SAS/B stylus into my Shure V15, which I guess is 50 years old and has an elliptical stylus.  For about the same price I bought a new Audio Technica VM540ML cartridge, which seems to have the same MicroLine stylus as the SAS/B, albeit on an aluminium cantilever.  It makes it on to TAS' "50 Greatest Bargains in High-End Audio".  And I still have the complete Shure cartridge!

Had not thought of digitising my records, though I did record all my dad's records to tape.  I note that Presto Classical can now singly manufacture no-longer-available CDs from the back catalogues of record companies like Decca, Deutsche Grammophon, Philips, Sony etc.  They also had over 6,000 SACDs in their catalogue last time I counted.  And they have just introduced a streaming service including file downloads.

@mijostyn Now I am curious about your turntable! 

If I ever have the money, and the Garrard does not work out, I have my eye on a Slovenian Holbo deck which has a tangential arm riding on air, and an air-bearing platter.  About the same price as one of your cartridges, or an SME V tonearm.

I heard one playing at a B&W demonstration evening and was impressed, so I went back later with a few of my records.  Sounded good, even playing through B&W speakers, and got me interested in vinyl again!