Hi Spirit,
I could relate to Gopher`s comment based on my own experiences, but keep in mind system synergy is key.I find the Atmasphere can come off very clear,fast and transparent but also lean and thinner in some systems.In comparison the 845 SET ampsI`ve heard are fuller in body and tone with more presence and flesh on the bone,yet as detaied(not dark,slow or veiled).Depending on one`s needs or wants 'either' could be the right choice.
Some will say the SET has more pleasing distortion(2nd order)to account for this perception of fullness of tonality.Maybe, but I`m always struck by the full body and warmth of tone when I hear live acoustic instruments(they are`nt lean nor lacking color-tone saturation).Depending on speakers,room acoustics and other components the Atmasphere could be ideal.
Given the nature of your speaker I suspect a fuller bodied SET could mate well with such a revealing and transparent speaker(just a guess). Obviously there`s no better solution than to hear both in your system.The good SET amplifiers as has been stated before, are also very transparent,nuanced and also 'fast'.Hard to predict which one a listener may prefer.
Regards, |
Hi Phil,
I`ll be very interested in your upcoming capacitor comparisons.I`ve put Duelund CAST into my speakers last month(tweeter,only caps in the speaker). Phil in one simple word,stunning!Despite their higher cost relative to other WELL regarded caps,the CAST are on a different plane. The more transparent the speaker, the greater the effect.I`d pay 'twice' the cost of the CAST given my superb results in both my speaker and DAC .
Best Regards, |
Larryi,
Hey, nice post and I agree with your overall descriptions of each amplifier type.None of them are flawless and each will have its attractions. Your characteration of SET amps(the good ones) is quite similar to my experiences.
"ambient fill and natural sounding decay" is a quality they posess that I find difficult(very) to live without.They score highest on my 'realism meter' as a result. I agree with phil, you don`t have to sacrifice transparency,speed or natural detail or resolution.Spirit, how likely the chance for a Audion -Atmasphere comparison in your system?
Regards, |
Siprit,
Have considered Gopher`s 211 tubed Melody AN 211? It has great word of mouth praise and is`nt uber expensive.
Regards, |
Atmasphere,
No surprise, some will love your amps and others have tried them and selected something different(preferences being what they are).I suspect most of the amplifiers mentioned so far have a legion of happy customer testimonials. Variety of choice is a good thing.
Regards, |
Spirit,
Your decision to audition all three of these amplifiers is wise.You`ll get endless opinions from the rest of us based on our own experiences and personal taste. Only you have your unique pair of ears and this is the best way to choose what`s best for you.I`m sure builters of SET amplifiers(or any other amp topology) could make their case as passionately as Ralph naturally does for the merits of his OTLs.Listening will settle it for you.
I look forward to your exciting endeavor.
Regards, |
Spirit,
I reccently replaced my speaker`s only pair of caps(tweeter)with the Duelund CAST and they are simply remarkable! Keep in mind an upgrade crossover capacitor will benefit 'all' good amplifiers(you`ll hear more of what it has to offer).What is your replacement capacitor?
Regards, |
Spirit,
It`s very possible your current amplifier may be hard to beat(based on your taste,you`ve enjoyed them for some time now).The capacitor change may just be the missing factor to bring it all together.Time will tell.Get the best capacitor you can afford,it`s worth it in a system of this caliber.
Regards, |
Phil,
I forgot to mention the Duelund CAST is quite large and space could be a limiting factor. On my system page there`s a picture of my stock cap(solen) next to my 5.6uF CAST.Duelund also makes a VSF model capacitor that`s less expensive(and smaller) but better than nearly all others except CAST.
Charles, |
Spirit,
You make some very good points,there`re different pathways to upgrading a system. The cost of the Duelund CAST is based on the capacitor size/value in uf. Mine are 5.6uF(speaker) and cost me 850 USD.The 1 pair I placed in my DAC(output capacitors, 1uF) cost 440 USD. The improvement is 'very' substantial. Spirit, depending on the size of your speaker caps(what size are they?),the cost may be equal or even less than many high end cables(power or interconnect).Just something to think about as tweeter cap quality is a big contributor to the overall sound. |
Spirit,
I would agree that first get comfortable with your new speakers and their fit into your system. Once this is done and you have a good sense of your sound ,then further changes 'if needed' can be chosen.
Speaker capacitor changes can be a relatively simple step that can yield marked improvement quite often.You have plenty of time,so no rush.
Regards, |
Spirit,
Just to be clear on this point, the Duelund CAST will not 'add' warmth,fuller body or sweetness(nor will it subtract these qualities). The CAST is honest,pure and most of all 'natural'. what ever is the instrinsic character of your components,that`s what you`ll hear.
The CAST is superbly transparent with very high resolution, its presentation is simply organic as opposed to analytical-clinical.If you really like your Hovland combo the CAST will reveal them completely. If the current tweeter capacitor is a 'bottleneck'(limiting factor) then you`re in for a special treat once it`s replaced.If the baseline quality of a system is already very good the CAST allows the full potential to shine.It won`t gloss over inherent flaws.
Regards, |
Larryi
The Duelund inductors have been on my mind as something to do down the road.Per word of mouth they occupy their own superior level as do their Capacitors. There`re two versions available, CAST and waxed paper in oil(WPIO).Based on my rewarding results with the capacitors I have no reason to doubt what is said about the inductor`s performance.
Regards, |
Spirit,
Here`s the pecking order.
1)CAST, Silver foil(uber expensive!)
2)CAST, copper foil(expensuve)
3)VSF Black, Silver or copper
4)VSF, Silver or copper
5)Alexander, entry level
Given the cost of your Zu DEF IV. and the level and cost of your system, I`d go with the CAST copper and be done with it. No 2nd guessing, CAST are made for high caliber systems,get the best.My Coincident speaker is very good but the CAST simply raises it to a higher performance level. You won`t regret this capacitor improvement.
Regards, |
Spirit,
From what I`ve gathered, the Ag CAST is out of this world good.Many believe the Cu version though not equal to the Ag CAST is not very far behind at all.For this reason the Cu CAST is said to be the better value at 1/3-1/4 the cost(relative of course) for a superior cap that betters all else but the CAST Ag version.
Regards |
Larry,
I always enjoy reading your well informed input and opinions. Have you heard the PHY drivers and in partic ular the 12 inch version?
Regards, |
Thanks Larry,
No I''ve not heard them but always read good comments about them.Given your vast exposure I thought you might have had the opportunity.
Regards, |
Spirit,
The VSF Black is the model just below the CAST and is thought to be one of the finest capacitors available. I think you`ll be very pleased with your results.The quality of cap matters a lot in terms of maximizing sound. If it did`nt, Zu would`nt bother with offering higher level upgrades.
Regards, |
Warrenh,
I understand your point.It seems the capacitor upgrade option should have been mentioned at the time you ordered your speakers.
Regards, |
Morganc,
Sean is entitled to his opinion and I respect that.Perhaps for his specific application this could be an acurate statement.
I`ll say this, there are numerous people on this site who have extensive experience with many of the highly regarded capacitors(at their expense). They would say there`re certainly good value to be found in some less costly caps that deliver true bang for the buck.I don`t believe that the 30.00 capacitor(though very good) is that close in performance to the Duelund VSF or CAST(maybe it`s close to the Duelund Alexander).I `ve use V-Caps(TFTF and OIMP) and Soni Platinum and they were quite good.The Duelund is just in a different class of performance.The CAST installed in my speaker and DAC provided stunning improvement(no hyperbole).This is one of those cases where more money actually yields more sound quality(this is`nt always true in High End audio products).Just my opinion with all due respect.
Regards, |
Interestingly the Zu Druid V to be reviewed in 6 Moons is having Duelund capacitors installed.I don`t know if this is due to insistence by the reviewer or was the suggestion of Zu.I wonder if Zu recommended the Audyn copper capacitor.
Regards, |
Hi Naggots,
If Zu recommened the Clarity MR capacitor over the Audyn how can the Audyn be '95%' of the Duelund?
My gut feeling is both the Clarity MR and Audyn likely represent excellent value per their cost.The Duelund is simply a higher tier performer and that`s what your paying for.
Regards, |
Spirit,
If you`re getting a network package with Duelund VSF capapcitors I can`t imagine why it would`nt also include the Duelund resistors(it only seems logical).
Regards, |
95% of Duelund? I wonder about that. Well it`s all a matter of various opinions like most things.I do agree if going to the expense of Duelund caps may as well get their resistors(which are cheap compared to the capacitors).Naggots, you make a good point, the supplied non Duelund resistors could sound reaaly good as a total package.Interesting situation.
Regards, |
