Very tough to replicate. McLaughlin is unique. What a great band it was. Yes, Goodman was excellent but I like Ponti in the second Mahavishnu Orchestra as well. Different styles. By the way, it was Jean-Luc Ponti whom McLaughlin initially invited for the first Mahavishnu Orchestra. He accepted the invitation but for some reason it didn't happen. Then McLaughlin found Goodman, who at the time was sort of retired to a Wisconsin farm ! John's mother played violin. Interesting, isn't it?
Thank you for the suggestions, I'll try them. |
Inner Mounting Flame and Visions Of The Emerald Beyond are masterpieces.
Never liked One Truth Band, that music has no meaning to me. I think, John's last great album was Que Alegria, just listen to the Reincarnation composition. |
I'd say that Inner Mounting Flame is very earthly and Visions has a cosmic feel to it, especially some tracks.
I wish they'd recorded Mahavishnu better. I listen to the original Japanese records, best sound you can get. |
I could never warm up to the Weather Report.
Thank you for the suggestions, I'll check them all out.
Yeah, when people like Miles Davis and John McLaughlin are gone, who will come next?
Orpheus10, by the way, once you suggested to listen to Nils Peter Molvaer, so I did. I really like his Miles inspired but very his own style.
The best concert I was able to find on youtube is called Live&direct. He plays with his original Scandinavian band, I understand. Great drummer there too. |
I like some of the 'Shakti', both original and 'Remember Shakti', but this is something quite different. Of the original 'Shakti' I'd say that the composition entitled 'India' is the most profound, and of the 'Remember Shakti' John's old composition 'Lotus Feet' is as great as ever.
When thinking of modern jazz or jazz fusion, it is difficult for me to listen to any other guitarist. John's mastering of the instrument is off the scale. By the way, some of his performances, most in fact, in 80s with Paco de Lucia, Paco de Lucia and Al di Meola, and with Jonas Hellborg are quite incredible. His trio in 90s with Trilok Gurtu and bass player was often excellent too.
But, none of this is Mahavishnu Orchestra. I think, he could've taken the concept farther than he did, I don't know why he didn't, maybe got exhausted and had to go meet "The Great Divine Mother'. |
Orpheus10, this is fine with me, especially Trilok Gurtu on the percussion, I always thought that he was great. When he played with McLaughlin their connectedness was palpable. 'Pasha's Love' is a super tune from that time, in addition to 'Reincarnation'. |
Actually no, but I am familiar with his music, listened enough of it on youtube. Like him much more as a performer than as a composer. |
That I liked, very nice. Dreamy yet articulate. The vocal could've been better. This is of course not jazz, atmospheric, I'd say. |
Yeah, McLaughlin has no rivals. Back in the 70s he could have assembled one hundred somewhat different Mahavishnu Orchestras and they all would've been excellent or great.
But frankly, to be very impolite, what he has been playing for so many years, with rare exceptions with Shakti, makes no sense and sounds like a screaming of a lonely soul lost in the increasingly incomprehensible wilderness. Even the tone of his supercustom guitars is wrong, I can hear it thru youtube. Not to mention that his bandmates can't play a single note the way it is supposed to be played. Terrible, just terrible. I think, John needs some electroshock therapy. After that either he will start playing what I believe he is still capable of playing or will be gone as a musician altogether. For me either would do but former would definitely be preferred. |
Psag, I will be the first one to agree that many Mahavishnu concerts were very boring. I probably explored the entire youtube looking for those concerts. I'd say, of what I found one in twenty was great, the rest was not worth it. Same with 70s Miles Davis, by the way.
Al di Meola is much better on acoustic guitar. His 'Cielo e Terra' mesmerising album is a masterpiece, 'Hearts of the Immigrants' and "Kiss my Axe' are excellent overall. There are exceptions though: Egyptian Danza from 'Casino' and Gods' Dinner Music from 'Splendido Hotel' and a few others are excellent with him playing electric guitar. |
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Coltrane's influence is clear. John himself said that the two biggest influences for him were Miles Davis and John Coltrane, he also liked Charles Mingus.
I am familiar with all McLaughlin's official releases of that time and couple of bootlegs.
In my perception di Meola has more elegance than fire. McLaughlin has both, Paco de Lucia mostly fire but he was a flamenco guitarist. Some of McLaughlin/de Lucia concerts in the 80s were simply spectacular, di Meola was not needed.
I only listen to Inner Mounting Flame and Visions on a regular basis, along with Miles's Bitches Brew where McLaughlin played quite well already. All other Mahavishnu releases are much weaker, though the composition " Sanctuary" from Birds of Fire album is great and "John's Song" from Trident Sessions is pretty good. " Inner Worlds I&II" from Inner Worlds okay, "Birds of Fire" from Birds of Fire okay too. |
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So, speaking of talent, and only talent not how it unfolded, in my view the best two men with electric guitar are John McLaughlin and Yngwie Malmsteen. With acoustic guitar - John McLaughlin and Paco de Lucia. Malmsteen could've become much more than he did. So could Shawn Lane whos technique was quite incredible but the rest of him was not. |
Checked out everyone who was mentioned. Nothing even remotely close to Mahavishnu at its best. It's tough, but it's okay. |
Tostadosunidos, music aside, Oz's fingers are in slow motion. |
When I say " in slow motion " I don't only mean speed per se, it is the mastery of the technique.
Any sound or noise can have subjective meaning to someone, we are not talking about that.
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I would go with Gilmour not Harrison given the choice. |
So, we are in agreement regarding McLaughlin and Gilmour. |
I only listen to four fusion era albums - Bitches Brew and Pangaea by Miles Davis, and Inner Mounting Flame and Visions Of The Emerald Beyond by Mahavishnu Orchestra.
I also listen to some compositions from other albums, not many. I have a Nakamichi 682ZX deck and make compilations.
As I mentioned, tunes like Birds of Fire, Sanctuary, Inner Worlds, New York on my Mind, a few others. Life Divine with Santana is excellent too. |
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Pryso, you were very lucky to see them live and perform their best. I read a number of interviews with McLaughlin. After a certain point in time the first Mahavishnu toured all over the world too much. They had to play the same tunes sometimes every other day or even more often, were very tired of everything including each other, virtually had no time to rehears, little time for life outside stage and studio. The characters were also not really compatible, Goodman and Hammer had their own ambitions and challenged John all the time. No wonder, the band didn't last. The second Mahavishnu was different, John himself called it true Mahavishnu Orchestra. Perhaps, but still only one great album - the Visions. |
I got to get me this book, actually heard about it. |
Visions is not admired by all Mahavishnu fans, it is quite different. It's like one composition. "Sister Andrea" is okay with me but nothing special. |
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Correction. " Pasha's Love " composition was written by Trilok Gurtu not by John. This is not the best take, I only have the best take on VHS tape, but still quite good. The bass player is weak. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4e5Fu_tCjK8 |
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Long ago I once heard some Danish band perform fusion somewhat similar to Mahavishnu, though no violin. The guitar player was very good. Of course, it was no Mahavishnu, but it was quite impressive. My point is that if anyone is trying to continue the tradition of Mahavishnu style fusion, or Miles style, it is likely that you will find them in Europe, especially in Norway and Denmark. Both McLaughlin and fusion era Davis were always more admired in Europe and Japan. |
