Any Comparisons between VTL 7.5 & ARC Ref 3

Stesom - what amp are you using with your REF3, PH7, REF CD7? REF110?

Is the amp dead quiet too? I think the REF3 is dead quiet, but when the REF110 was added, there was a little bit of hiss.

Cheers

I had an extensive explanantion of the principles behind the VTL 7.5 design. In a nutshell and from my minimal understanding, a Tube based current source will always be limiting compared to a Mosfet one. Hence the VTL decision to use Mosfets for the current source. They prefer the musicality of the 12AX7 tube or 12AU7 tube as they are deisgned for audio. This is compared to the Russian tubes used by ARC & BAT in their preamps. While the 12AU7 being using in the original 7.5 sounds soft in the 2nd version it is opperated at a much higher current (I hope I am remembering the explanation correctly and putting it in writing 100%) into its most linear range. At this point the 12AU7 tube will not be soft sounding. My skeptism is much reduced in a design theory after these explanations.

But on a different note, I am using the Thor on my 7.5 v1. I really didn't A B it as I tried it in some other systems to great effect. Based on Billbench's comments I will need to go back & try again. 2nd of all, Billbench, I would love to know what Amplifier you are using in your original comparison.

I am running Ayre MX-R monos. I have heard the same setup as mine at my dealer, but using the ARC Ref-210s and also dead quiet.....Steve

What about what I wrote is confusing??? Now I am confused...To be clearer for you, the comparison of these two preamps is imbalanced from the start. A more fair and equitable comparison would be the aforementioned 6.5 to the ARC, not the 7.5. The 6.5 is about 80% (according to VTL) of the 7.5, which is about what I attributed to the Ref3 in my auditions when comparing to the 7.5.

The 7.5 sounds light years better to my ear, and the 6.5 is on a more even footing to the Ref3.

There is nothing "imbalanced" about comparing two reference model preamps from different manufacturers, regardless of the price difference. If a higher price tag meant anything, then the VTL couldn't be compared to many more expensive preamps like the $36K Boulder and some others.

It's especially ironic that the preamp you feel doesn't measure up comes from the company with the longest history in the business and with preamps specifically. ARC/Bill Johnson virtually invented the concept of a high end dedicated preamp over thirty years ago.

It's a bit like saying that you shouldn't even discuss Rollins in the same breath as Coltrane because Coltrane is so vastly superior. Where ever you come down on these comparisons, there is a lot of subjectivity involved in picking the preamp that you consider to be the most musically rewarding. It's one thing to make your case for your favorite, but declaring the competition not worthy of comparison is a silly way to do it.

I was using the VTL7.5 Series 1. I gave very serious thought to sending in my unit for a Series 2 upgrade, hoping it would equal running my Modded Esoteric direct as I really wanted to keep a preamp in my system, but in the end, I decided not to waste another 3K as I am confident it would not have proved better than running the Esoteric direct to amps.

Frankg, yes, Alex created my CD Player. It’s a 2.5 version and I could not be more happy with it. I am going to hold out until the end of the year before I send him my UX-1 for an upgrade as I would bet that another refinement will come by years end.

About what I said regarding the Thor, I was not trying to make an “absolute statement” but I thought it was ironic that from day one, VTL told me not to bother with power conditioners and of course, I said to myself…what do they know :), and in the end of my experimenting, VTL’s advice was dead on accurate (for me). FWIW, the best power conditioner I used which got me closest (but not there) to running direct to the wall was a Reimyo ALS-777. That Reimyo Power Conditioner noticeably improved the Reimyo CD player but it did not work at all on my new modded Esoteric UX-1.

As far as comparing the REF3 and the 7.5, I think it’s a completely fair comparison. Let’s face it; most high end gear is good and usually very good. The Differences between component A and another manufactures component A are usually minimal at best. What sucks is going to a high end shop to listen to Component A and the set up of the shop is a complete joke, from speaker placement, to extreme room clutter, to components sitting on the carpet, and the list goes on forever. You got to get this stuff back to your home if you r really interested in how it sounds.