AN Niobium versus Tantalum resistors?

They are .5W because of space issues, I was not able to go higher. I use standard Niobium, which are higher resolution and fuller sounding than Z-Foils, as a comparison. They are the highest resolution resistor I have tried so far and the tone curve feels natural and nothing weird, no rhodium/silver tilt etc. Just a great improvement to the Takman sound I was getting before. You lose a touch of "exciting" metallic felt-texture, but its worth it for the naturalness of the music. And that part is totally subjective anyway.

Have not tried tants but read many reviews of them before deciding. There’s a website which said the Niobiums are "musically" on a higher level than silver tants, although the silver tants may give some improvement in certain areas.

I want to try the silver Niobium this summer. At first I thought I needed them because these began VERY warm and dark, even at 100+ hours. Then they shifted bright and brittle. They went back and forth until you get both warm and top end, but then they are sluggish. Thats when I removed them. But when I put them back, the next 150 hours cleaned and tightened up the sound and they are super solid now. Even bass-heavy techno music sounds as tight as metal resistors, but like a flood gate of music and transparency comes out.

 

Thanks. Didnt quite find anything comparing their sounds, but good info none the less. If the Niobium are being integrated to their higher end systems, sounds like they are a full evolution to the tants. In particular, I’m looking for more lower end weight and fuller musical information over my Takman metal.

 

And sounds like the silver AN resistors are more picky about placement, which makes sense but I don't go down the road of silver in my system.

So, more to the story :

 

I tried both Takman carbon and metal - also replacing generic metal. The carbon were super awesome for low end weight and realism, but they no doubt have a compressor effect (in pro-audio lingo) or smoothness (in hi-fi lingo). They just had weird, softness issues. They were also notably less transparent and higher noise than the Takman metal. They gave me the musical information, but with less clarity. I burn-in several hundred hours with my testing.

 

I tried to run Takman metal on the + and carbon on the -. Worked very well at first, then I felt fatigue after a couple weeks, like something wasn’t quite right. It was like parallel compressing lol.

So I returned the Takman metal and the overall coherency is back, but I’m jonesing for the best of all worlds. Willing to pay the price for AN Niobium.. their Kaisei have had no downside for me when it comes to low noise and transparency. Considering Takman carbon are like 10+ years old design (?), and Niobium is from last year...I have to imagine there are advances.

agisthos- What I’ve learned so far is see if you can learn what kind you already have, and if you don’t want to deviate from their signature (dynamics, 3d stage, etc) then find a superior brand of the same design. If you want to experiment with the total presentation, then explore the other kind.

MItch2 - I have to imagine the Amtrans carbon have a similar sound to the Takman carbon..I tried a tiny Amtrans picoF film cap and it was too wishy washy for me in this application. So I am not sure what to think of Amtrans. Musically rich...but too veiled. Seems a very specific sound, in some ways a shortcut to tubes if you put them in a class D.

I am passing on naked resistors due to a point Takman brought up in their papers.. which is that naked is going to be a victim of induced current, which means magnetism.. this is the same reason Furutech has special grounding and demag in their connectors. Those competing magnetic fields are a no-no if you are going for rock bottom noise. Which I am in this application. Also... Takman pointed out the bodies can be a point to add vibration countermeasures. I won't say I'm not curious about the Vishay...but... based on what works for me, I am not sure.

What I like about AN so far, is they seem to do a good job bringing the musical information of their inspirations - Black Gate, Shinkoh et al, but with less veil and noise. I am trying to order the Niobium and will report back.

 

 

 

 

 

I've heard many things about the Z Foils and the Takman paper regarding their design is a logic aligned with many experiences I've had. We all have to prioritize based on the synergies and brands that resonate with us. In a perfect world, I would love to try them. Absolutely the only way to know anything for sure is to try it yourself.

If the AN resistors are too euphonic or feeling too inaccurate, I might go to the z-foils. Just when I think I master the logic of my DIY, I will get shocked with a failure and go searching in new territory :) Isn't that the truth?

 

Regardless..doesnt sound like too many people have tried Niobium.

I spoke to AN again, and they refused to offer qualitative remarks, saying it all depends on the balance and they do not use all Niobium or even all Kaisei in their equipment. Not surprised there. Still, I am placing my order.

 

I finally found a review, google-translated from Polish :

 

Tantalum resistors, such as several versions of Audio Note or Shinkoh, sound sweet, dynamic and slightly rounded, especially in the mid-bass. The relaxation of these resistors can take away too much coldness and sharpness, or unnecessary tension in the sound. Bold bass adds bulk to the sound when it is too thin and contoured. The voices move forward and fill. Their disadvantage is the lack of the deepest bass and excessive sweetness.

Rikens play super neutral and have deep bass. The mountain is resonant. If the source is too sharp, it may sound too lean. With a well-balanced system, this is the best choice.

Z-foil pulls out teeth during the burn-in process, then it is very neutral. Great for shunt volume attenuators.

Takman REX is bland and neutral.

You can write for so long, but we have to focus on AN NIOBIUM 2W.

Each resistor requires a laborious burn-in process and it is no different in this case.

The first hours are my full fascination with the sound! It is somewhat reminiscent of the best 2W tantalum resistors. We have a thick sound, full of proper weighting. It looks like it’s an absolutely perfect resistor. We have an amazing detail completely unheard of with such a mass of sound. In addition, we have a stretched, clean treble and very deep bass.

Then it is worse because we experience what with Z-foil resistors in the burn-in process, i.e. the sound becomes too sharp and flashy. It doesn’t reach the size of Z-foil, but it can be painful.

After about 30 hours, everything stabilizes. What do we get in the end?

The sound is ideally even from the top to the bottom of the band.

The tone is brilliant but not the golden and sweet richness of tone that tantalum resistors have.

There is no specific thickening of the middle bass. The resolution is higher than that of tantalum resistors. You have to be a little careful with them. I recommend gradual changes and trials and mixing of AN Niobium with other types of resistors. Replacing all of them with AN NIOBIUM can be too painful for the ears.

Is it the best audio resistor in the world? Maybe....

Yes but it is like asking the comparison of two of the same herbs - I had this problem recently with oregano. One brand was so sharp and bitter I could not find any place for it whatsoever. I think its possible to talk about the intrinsic qualities of a component irrespective of where you put it, like comparing 3 oregano on their own.

Decided to try Z-Foils on the input signal coming into the amp, and then Niobiums in the feedback position which seem to exaggerate the color of whatever is used in it. AN is finally sending them my way.

As for silver Tant/Niobium : I cannot stand silver or rhodium in my system because I like the warm fundamentals which always seem to vanish with the slightest rhodium component, so I am fearful of trying these, but I heard they may be different. They are expensive to try.🤔

I added the Z-Foils first. This is for the resistor which the interconnect immediately connects to, so I decided to make this transparent. The Niobium will go downstream in a feedback circuit.

First impression is surprise. I was told the Takman create artificial junk on the highs which exaggerate dynamics (reminds me of WBT), and sure enough this is true! Overall, a feeling of going from a cheap camera lens to a Zeiss or Leica. Pure, uncolored, rich and deep. Noise floor radically dropped over the Takman REY, and those were radically less noise than the REX or generic metal. Resolution increased nicely. No color whatsoever, like looking through high-grade glass. It is nice for my application! These seem good anywhere you do not want the resistor to exist, so to speak. Filling an entire system with these would be odd unless you were totally confident on all other components. 

There is some burn-in going on, so I will take them to 2-300 hrs and then add Niobiums. Obviously AN are aware of the Z-foils, so I am expecting the same but  maybe more humanity or color, maybe tuned toward voices or acoustics.

I’ve had the Niobiums in a couple days, also replacing Takman Metal. Knowing the improvement the Z’s did, initially I’m not super impressed.

I had hoped for the radically low noise/linearity of Kaisei, but these are more on the carbon/tant vibe of "smoothness". Dynamics a touch reduced over any metal I’ve used, a slight compressor effect. Resolution and noise floor is pretty good, not amazing. These are the "closest" to metal that I’ve heard, coming from something that is not metal. But still, when you switch to techno music, the roundness and inaccuracy is apparent. Even solo acoustic feels like I lost the dynamics and fatigues me a little with the "evenness". I’m going to try Z-foil in this 2nd position and I think that will work for me here. If you find your metal resistors too sharp and clear but hate carbon, these are probably what you are looking for. They are musically very nice..but I can’t live without the dynamics I had.

I think its definitely a matter of finding the right seasoning for your application.

 

Typically I use the full 300 hours my Furutech solder needs, so its painfully slow. Audionote recommended 100hrs for their resistors. In fact, the Niobium are making some progress..so I’ll report back after a couple hundred hours. But for example, EL caps and metal resistors begin too thin and clinical in my experience, very slowly opening up and feeling natural. These have been the reverse.

 

Likely I will try the Z-Foils in place, because I suspect the Niobium are going to sound very similar...the price point is identical.In the studio I want maximum transparency.

 

But for my hi-fi, I want relax... today I added the Niobiums there, coupling the VCap ODAM’s to the El84 cathode, replacing some metal foil. I like the results already. The most brittle recordings of ancient instruments and 1970’s Japanese jazz which sounds like a tin can are totally listenable, which the metal always had trouble with and the carbon turned into nice but flat boredom.

UPDATE:

I was concerned the Niobiums were too tubey and compressed sounding, so I swapped all the resistors to Z-Foil. There was instant gratification of low noise and high resolution, but after several hundred hours they did sound thin and there was an extremely "metallic" felt-texture. Tingy, metallic, pingy. Acoustic guitars and flutes and especially vocals were metallic to the point of sounding like my loudspeakers became tin cans. It was unenjoyable for everything but showing off slick sounding techno music.

In this case, I would prefer Takman or a mix of Z and Takman, because Takman have crispy and gross highs, but are FAR more musical overall than Z foils. 

However..

I put back in the Niobiums which had 150 hours on them, after AN reassured me I should continue burning them in.

Now at over 300 hours, I can say the sound is fantastic. They became tighter from bass to treble, with no slowness or compression, but much more music comes through than Z-foils. The felt-texture which began woody and waxy now is more like "felt" (think of the felt hitting a metal string in a piano), which is very low fatigue. Acoustic guitars sound natural, bass is warm, highs contain a ton of information - tambourines and cymbals are rich and natural. Imaging is easily as precise as the Z-foils, but with an analog feeling and not metallic.. overall a perfect resistor! Just keep in mind they really do take well over 200 hours!

While I was concerned at their ’tubeyness" at first and combined them with Z-foils, I am ordering more for the circuit and think I can go full-Niobium. Just bear in mind its a very long burn-in.

I recommend replace one position of either the Takman or Z-foil with Niobium. I tried a few combos of this.. small differences of these locations, but in all cases the improvement of Niobium was great!

@teo_audio I've come to liken it to comparing high-end glass for lenses. Zeiss, Leica, or a simple prism from grade school show you what happens when turbulence and time shift occur with light - prismatic effects, halo, chromatic aberrations. Electricity moving through materials (as wave or particle) subject to the same issues. Hence why we call it "colorations" to sound. My $0.02.

 

Yes thats especially similar with NOS tubes. Somehow people accept tubes work on this principle, but not cables, resistors, caps...all are nothing but materials which energy flows though, coloring the behavior and result. But I guess some people feel the rain, while others just get wet.