an amp without "electronic" sound


Could you give some recommendations for a power amplifier without the usual electronic/mechanical sound? It is easy to say: "tubes", but in my opinion tubes are not always the way to go. I myself prefer solid state (because of several reasons).

Chris
dazzdax

Showing 4 responses by atmasphere

Dazzdax, if you want the amp to not impart an electronic quality, I can tell you that the list of candidates is not very long. On top of that, its likely that you will have to accommodate the amplifier in some way, as the relationship between any amplifier and speaker is paramount.

First, in order to avoid an obvious electronic quality, the amplifier has to be designed with intention to obey the rules of human hearing, rather than the more arbitrary rules that are commonly used to get the best bench measurements.

For example, we all know that humans have bandwidth of about 20Hz to 20Khz. To accomplish that without phase response issues, the amplifier has to be good from about 2Hz to 100KHz or so. Otherwise it will impose soundstage issues and tonal issues near the frequency extremes.

For audiophiles, one of the more important 'electronic' issues is that of brightness and other high frequency artifacts. The only way to avoid this is to intentionally design the amplifier to not make the odd-ordered harmonics that the human ear uses as loudness cues (and so is sensitive to 100ths of a percent!).

To do this you cannot employ loop negative feedback as it is known to enhance those very harmonics that the ear uses to gauge loudness.

So now we are limited to amps without NFB. How do we achieve linearity? Distortion **has** to be kept down, even the even-orders that our ears do not object to, because another human hearing rule, masking (wherein a louder sound will mask a quieter sound), means that the non-objectionable distortions will nonetheless mask low level detail.

To keep distortion down you have to use every trick in the book: Class A operation, the most linear devices (more on that later), simplistic circuitry (by 'simplistic' I do not mean crude or primitive BTW, which includes but is not limited to a minimum number of gain stages) and otherwise eliminate any other known distortion-causing design characteristics.

The most linear devices known are still triodes. If you are not going to use them, the design field is really limited; you are looking for a zero feedback class A transistor amplifier: Pass Labs, Ayre and Ridley Audio are good places to start.

Transistors themselves are known distortion-inducing devices, so if you allow yourself tubes, the field is considerably larger.

SETs are capable of very low distortion at low powers as they usually don't have hysteresis-induced distortion in their output transformers. Bandwidth and power is problematic and you need higher efficiency speakers to appreciate them. But recent advances in the SET art have made for some impressive gains in transformer design area; this is the edge of the envelope with SETs.

Push-pull amplifiers have power and bandwidth, but suffer loss of low level detail due to hysteresis losses in the output transformer. Two of the more impressive tube designs, especially in light of the fact that they are *not* triode are the CAT amplifier and the Modjesky RM-9. Triode push-pull amplifiers will generally run 300bs or other Directly Heated Triodes (DHT).

OTLs, having no output transformer, avoid the bandwidth and low level distortion issues on that account. This gives them the low level detail of SET combined with the power and bandwidth of push pull, although the bandwidth is usually considerably wider. Choice of speaker is something that has to be paid proper attention as it is with any amplifier.

In general tubes should not be paired with speakers of lower impedance (although this turns out to be true for transistor amplifiers as well, if the best sound possible is your goal). Its a bit of a red herring to fault tubes for not having the 'current' to drive low impedance speakers; the reality is that you want the best tool for the job; butter knives don't make good screwdrivers :)

I apologize for the verbose post, but the subject merits detail as it is at the very heart of what high end audio is (or should be) all about.
Toufu, the short answer is 'yes', but I would not automatically assume that all triode and all class A amps will be 'clean' and neutral. Re-read my post again- one thing about SETs and push-pull transformer coupled amplifiers is that the larger you build them, the harder it is to get the output transformer to have full bandwidth.

Please correct me if I am wrong, but having an 845 I am assuming that your amplifier is an SET. 845s make a bit more power, in fact that is very large for an SET, and it is also very difficult to get wide bandwidth with such an amplifier. Fifteen to twenty watts may not sound like a lot, but for an SET it is. The best sounding SETs will be 7 watts or less.

Fifteen years ago the 300b power tube was the reigning star- with them you can make an amp that is more or less 7 watts. That was supplanted 7-10 years ago by the 2A3, which is about 3-5 watts. Nowadays the 45 is the big news, and that's only good for a watt or two.

That's what I meant about needing high efficiency speakers. If you have speakers that are less than 103 db or so, its very difficult to experience what these amps have to offer.
Dcstep, to achieve what Dazzdax is talking about you need an amplifier that has a remarkable combination of characteristics. It should be fast, which is a problem for a lot of tube amps, but it should be relaxed, which is a problem for a lot of transistor amplifiers. Detail and transparency of the kind needed for this resolution comes from very low level distortion at low power. Any distortion-inducing design elements (devices woth poor linearity, class of operation issues, etc.), in the circuit will impede this quality.

The amplifier is more important than the speaker in this respect, so you must get a speaker that works with the amp that has the right qualities, rather than the other way around. **Figuring out** which is the right amp to buy to begin with is another can of worms entirely :)
Hi Dave, of course, I think our amplifiers suit that bill easily :)

The short list:
I admire the Ridley Audio transistor amp; its expensive but it is one of the best I've heard (tube or solid state). I'm also a fan of the Pass First Watt amps. Of the SETs that I have heard, the only ones that have worked for me (so far) are the DeHavilind and the Fi 2A3 'X' model (the Art Audio stuff works quite well too). With larger tube amplifiers the CAT seems to me one of the best. In amps of a bit less power the Modjesky RM-9 and the Berning amps figure highly.