0461, just wonder what's wrong with your MSB M202s? Fail due to over heat? |
I have had a lot of Krell gear myself and am currently running a Krell KCT to MSB 202 amps and the sound is stunning. Much smoother than the Krell amps but faster too, very very fast! There is so much more music there with the MSB 202 ampsthey are just musical to the core but fast and powerful too. All of my interconnects are solid silver and the preamp line to the amps is a silver plated copper line and it does not sound lean on my Apogee Diva Ultimate's. I have been lucky enough to hear a lot for high end equipment and there is a higher level of gear like FM Acoustics and Vitus that just take you much further and deeper into my music and the MSB 202 amps do that too. I do not think they are the issue for you. The Reference 5 SE preamp is much smoother and has more punch too you may like that?
Rob |
Good luck. BTW, it is not just the 91db...you should be fine there. it is the ohm load of the STrad. it is a 4ohm load...but 2.7ohms in the lower registers...that might be something amps may struggle with. Because the speaker is well balanced...it will be fine...but it may not be 'rock solid/pitch perfect, tactile bass'.
Look forward to reading about your observations! Enjoy! |
Hi Lloydelee21,
In my system now the bass is quite deep and solid, I think Audionote p4 produce quite enough power to drive high sensitive speaker like canterburry with 96db level but note sure for the Stradivari with 91db. I should audition these speaker with high power tube like 300b before decide to buy it. Will post the result after experienced it. Takes a lot for your comment. Have a nice weekend. |
Sorry...i have not done it...only midpowered tube amp. CJ MV60 (55 watts/channel EL34 tubes). it was beautiful midrange and CJ does have a special 'fire' in the midrange when driven by midpowered tubes...but the bass response is superb when driven by very powerful, good quality solid state. I have never driven the Strads with high powered tubes...would love to try. I ended up with Class A Solid State. In your case, how good is the bass control of the 300B tubes? The Strad is not difficult to drive 'well' in the bass...but for it to sound world class i was only able to manage this with high powered Class A Solid State. I have heard good things about ARC Ref 210 tube amps.
hope that helps. good luck. Great speakers! And you've already got a great system! |
Hi All,
Im using Audio Note M3 Preamp and Audio Note P4 Monoblock 2x300B tube each, driving Tannoy Canterburry, now I'm thinking to replace the Tannoy speaker with Stradivari, does anyone have experience to drive Stradivari with 300B tube or other Audio Note gear ? Tks alot in advance. |
Nice, Teleshack...i have heard many Strad owners enjoy them with Mcintosh. Jadis! Wow! I have heard them with CJ mid-powered amp, and with CJ preamp/Gryphon Antileon...tremendous speakers! Enjoy!!! |
I have a sonus faber stradivari with mcintosh mc275 V. I changed the 4 6550 tubes to tung sol gray plates. I used mullard cv492 12ax7 and mullard 12at7 with kondo ksl lp interconnect connected to jadis jp80 mc pre amp and sounds satisfying. |
Wow...what happened to the msb? too bad. yes, Pass and Strads are a great combination. good luck! |
My MSB´s have broken down... So now I think I will be ordering a set of Pass XA 200.5. They say they sound like the 100.5 but with a lot more Umpf... Interesting. |
From your description up top, I'd say give PBN Audio amps a try. |
Congrats 0461!!!!!
i imagine you have read Martin Collom's review of these on hifi critic? i am particularly intrigued by msb's digital stuff. have been speaking with them about their new universal media transport. |
Hi Doug2507,
After having listened to both the Pass and the MSB´s for a few months now, I must say that MSB is the owerall winner for me. They do everything better, except for midrage warmth perhaps. But if you end up going for the MSB´s, make sure that you get them in the latest version because the earlier models can fail. But if you buy them new today, they will be allright I have heard ! |
Watching this thread with interest. Running a MSB DAC with B&W 803D's and have both the 202's and XA100.5's on my short list. Pre might end up being either attenuator to DAC or the likes of REF.3/LS5/CT5/XP20. Interested to hear how the 202's compare to the XA's after suitable break in. |
I have the Strads hooked up to Mcintosh MC2301's and rotate between the Jadis DA60, VAC 300.1/Sigma 160i and MC601's. Cabling is Nordost Valhalla/Odin and I also use Kubala-Sosna Elation. Your welcome to come by for a demo, we are located in the Miami,Fla area just minutes from the airport, I am a dealer for all of the above mentioned brands. |
I have a mcintosh mc402 now playing on the Strads, but will probably go back to my Mcintosh 2102 when I re-tube. The Strads sound best with my tubes. I just put some Telefunken smothplates in my Pre, C220. The 402 plays louder with more control. The tubes provide more midrange magic, IMHO.
Hate messing with tubes though. |
i've the Nagra VPA on my Stradivari and they're superb,also i tried the Gryphon Antileon stereo also they're great |
i've the Nagra VPA on my Stradivari and they're superb,also i tried the Gryphon Antileon stereo also they're great |
i've the Nagra VPA on my Stradivari and they're superb,also i tried the Gryphon Antileon stereo also they're great |
Got it...guess we'll just have to wait. Look forward to it. |
Lloydelee21:
Is not a good choice to keep the tubes on the preamp that hot for such a very long period of time. The tubes will wear off more quickly.
My ARC DAC8 was played like this but this is a solid state.
And yes after 450 hours the capacitors just got braked in.
ARC recomands minimum 600 hours and they say that very clear on a big paper on the box of the DAC. |
0461:
My XA160.5 got about 500 hours now and ive just noticed at 470-480 hours that the magic started. Your powers needs a lot more then 60 hours. I think both of us needs more then 6-700 hours. Dont even think to compare them at 60 hours because they are not even closer to the final sound that you will get in the end. About power, ive compared my XA160.5 with X350.5 and yes it can be more power but for Strads are more then enough the XA160.5.
Now i'm waiting my new preamp the ARC Anniversary REF40.
Will let you know when i will get it. |
Hi Johnb30
i would have thought if you run signal on infinite repeat thru preamp with power amps off, that should be fine. |
The 160.5´s are in.... yhaaa ! The 600.5 are also here, so I have had some very interesting evenings. The 160.5´s have only had about 60 hours of burn in so far. The 600.5`s are pre owned, so they are in a ready to rumble state.
My impresions so far, are that the 160.5´s sound sweeter by a small margin, but the 600.5´s have better low end control and slamm. Thy are deffenetly brothers.... the over all tonallity is the same and the X 600.5´s are sonically very close to the XA´s.
But I will have to say that I have also compared the Pass amps to the MSB 202 monos I have been playing on for the last 6 months, and so far they sound better ower all. First and foremost they are more neutral to my ear. They sound more airy in the top end, and imaging and body is better than the XA´s even. There is no doubt that the 600.5 has more brute power, but they sound like a welding machine in comparison ( = less finess ). It might be that the XA´s will surpass the MSB´s when they get more burn in time, but so far it seems to me that MSB are the winner.
There is also something about the timing of the MSB´s that surpases the Pass amps.. very hard to explain, but the timing is very "natural" and organic. A bit like the sound of the Atmasphere OTL amps, if you know what I mean.
I will get back when the 160.5`s have had more time to settle. |
I'll try...but my local dealer told me to not push the tubes to hard..and that the powers needs to get the signal to amplify it...so i will run like 12-14h a day unfortunately. Do you think i can run it with the powers switched off ? |
Fantastic! Congrats! Definitely looking forward to reading your post!!! Run them 24/7 so we wont have to wait more than a month! :) |
Today ive just ordered my ARC Anniversary REF40 preamp. Now i'm waiting for it to come. I hope in one month it will be here. Thanks for advices and i will write my impressions after the 600 hours brake in. |
Downunder,
The 100.5's drive Maggie 3.6's. With the ART 3 in front of the Pass, I find it very easy to listen to, smooth and excellent low level detail. This is coming from a guy who loves SET/300b amps (have them in another system). I had Mac 1000 monoblocks before the Pass.
Those 8a's with the teflon caps must be nice driving your Strads. Never had a chance to listen to 8a's. I'd say the Pass gives up a little to what my 300b's can do in the mid/upper range (with the right speaker) but it's just a matter of the best amp for the the job and the Pass is it for my Mags. Regarding bass, with the Pass I can feel the low notes fluttering against me rather than just a "one note" pound. I didn't get that with the Mac's even with their 1000 watts. |
Onemug
How do you find the cj ART3 coupled with the XA100.5's? What did you have before?
I have the ART3 and I am happy with my cj prem8a's with teflon caps, however always wondering whether I will gain the additional bass control/slamm without loosing too much in the mid and top end, especially tonality and tube amp depth.
cheers |
I agree with Onemug. i have heard the Ref 5 and 3 extensively...in fact, just helped someone dial in a system with Ref 5 just yesterday. also have spoken with 2 people...one owns REf 40 yesterday. the other owns Ref 5 with Pass...and loves it. by all accounts i have seen/read/spoken to, the Ref 40 surpasses the 5 by a wide margin...whereas there are differences of opinion beteen ref 3 vs 5. some say great difference...many say improvement but not enough to trade up. good luck...but again i think that will be a world-class combination. |
Johnb30, haven't that exact combo but would opine:
I have the XA100.5's. I believe a lot in preamps. I matched up a Conrad Johnson ART 3 with them and the combo produces a sound that is the best I've heard. I have a lot of respect for AR's preamps and would imagine the REF 40 would be excellent with your 160.5's. They deserve the best pre you can put in front of them. |
My power XA160.5 got about 450 hours and it sounds great. At this moment i'm thinking to change my pre from REF3 to REF 40th Anniversary. Does anyone ever heard this pre in this combination ( SF Stradivari + XA160.5 + ARC REF 40th) ? |
Sounds great! enjoy. and looking forward to the post! |
The 160.5´s are due nex week. And I have the oppertunity to try a set of X600.5 as well. Will be very interesting to compare them. Will be back with impresions shortly. |
Like others have mentioned above, I Can't say enough about the Macintosh 2301's with these speakers. |
A friend has a pair of these speakers. I really like its overall tonal balance, ability to deliver the proper density of sound (harmonic structure) and the lack of artificial edge or brittleness. Overall, a terrific speaker.
The slight shortcoming with this speaker, like a LOT of other speakers, is that it is not the last word in liveliness and ability to deliver the kind of explosive attack that other kinds of speakers (like horns or full range drivers) can deliver. I would try an OTL amp with the speaker. OTLs have a way of bringing to life speakers that are slightly "polite." If I were you, I would audition something like the Atmasphere and Joule amps.
|
I'm haveing about 250 hours of playing and it still needs to improve. The improvments until now are minimal...so i think it will be a boom of performance at about 5-600 hours or something...there are 6 caps of 25.000uF which need to be full bruned in for full performance. |
The pair of 100.5 I had, kept on improowing for the first 200 hours. After that I am not sure if the improovments were psykological or real ! |
My pair of XA160.5 just got in ! The sound is very good but it still needs some break in time. Does anyone knows how long it takes for full brake in ?
The Strads also have about 600 hours of playing. |
0461,
Interesting. Let us know if the 160.5's do it for you. |
To onemug,
The needles did´nt move much, even at high levels. But the bass became "floppy" and undefined. The timing became off beat, and the mids and highs lost body and warmth. The soundstage became compresed and the airy and transparent quality that I so love the Pass amps for, went out the window. Admitted.. I like to rock the house every now and then, but the above occured at to low levels to my taste. Before the Strads I had a set of Wilson WP6 and drowe them with the Pass amps to very high listening lewels with out problems... appart from listening fatiuqe ! The MSB´s I use now, are rated at 400W in 4 ohms, and they deliver more bass control and air at high listening levels than the XA 100.5 did, but with less warmth, bass slam, and midrange body.So at the end of the day, by ordering the 160.5 I hope for the 100.5 sound, but with more V8 tourqe and power. |
Hi,
I have owned the Strad for a few years, I was using Electrocompaniet Nemo and it was working ok for me but not superb, however my Nemo amps was not upgraded to the latest version and there is most likely a different sound from the Nemo amps made in the recent years.
At present I'm using BAT VK 600 SE M monoblock configuration and are very pleased with the results, my front end is dCS Scarlatti (transport-dac and clock), but it was fine using the older Elgar+ stack as well.
I use kimber select 1130 and 3038 for the cables
I have no plan to change out the amps, the only disadvantage is the heat from the amps especially during spring/summer time.
So I reccomend these amps, there is more then sufficient power and finesse from my point of view.
Gfe
Norway |
0461:
The amps should arrive this week or next week...i will let you know about the sound. Also let me know if u listened to X200.5 and if the upgrade is worthing or XA160.5 is enough for Strads even at very loud levels.
What preamp and what loudspeaker cable and interconnects do u have ? |
0461,
I'm curious as to when you had your 100.5s, how much were the needles moving when your Strads were sounding compressed?
I love the combo of Pass and SF. The 30.5 is one of the amps I rotate in to drive my Guarneri Homages in my home office. Hope the 160.5's do it for you. |
Hi Johnb30,
How funny... I have also ordred a set of 160.5
Considred the 200.5, but I think they are to expensive compared to the 160.5.
As stated in the beginning of this tread, I had a set of 100.5 which I loved the sound of in combination with the Strads and the Ref3, but I felt I lacked power. So now I look forward to learn if the 160.5´s are powerfull enough. |
I have ARC REF3 with MC501 on my Strads. It dosent sounds to good. Ive just ordered a pair of Pass XA160.5
The MC501 just dosent have enough power to drive the Strads. The matching betwen ARC REF3 and MC501 is ok.
Try to look for other amps then Mcintosh. It dosent really sound good with Strads. They deserve a better amp to do justice with them. |
0461...the impedance mismatch is on paper, meaning given the nnumbers, it suggests they may not be suitable for each other. The best thing to do is to try to listen to the pairing together. If you have any McIntosh dealers around you, if they do not carry ARC products as well, I would take your Ref 3 to their store and listen to it with a MC501 or MC1.2KW and test them out together. If they sound good, then no problems. I was just making an observation based on the reported numbers. |
Hi Cmalak,
Thank you very much for your words on impedance. I was not aware of that at all. What a downer.... I am very contend with the Ref3.
But but, "problems with mis-matching impedance in hifi excists to be solved" as my grandma used to say back in 1944 ;-) ( joke ).
Well, we haven´t closed the deal on the 1.2KW´s yet doe to a disagreement on price. The seller seems to be unaffected by my arguments about financial cricis in europe affecting re-sell prices on hifi....
Have a nice weekend all.. |
0461...that's great that you have narrowed it down to the MC501 and MC1.2KW but unfortunately they will both not fit that well with your ARC Ref 3. There is a potential impedance mismatch and the place where it will be most apparent is in the bass fequencies, where the Ref 3 has an output impedance above a 1000 ohms. The input impedance of the MC1.2KW is 10Kohms (which gives you less than the minimum 10:1 and certainly less than the often desired 15:1 or 20:1 ratio between the amp's input impedance to the pre's output impedance. The Ref 3's overall output impedance of 600ohms balanced and 300ohms through single-ended connections will barely get you there in terms of the desired ratios but as I said in the important bass region the Ref 3's output impedance goes above 1000ohms. This will cause attenuated and loose bass performance most likely and will therefore muddy up the overall resolution and thicken the sound.
If you look at ARC's power amps (both SS and tube) they are all above 100K ohms in terms of input impedance. So you may have to find a low output impedance preamp to match with your McIntosh SS amps, maybe 1 of their own preamps like the C500T.
Good luck. |
Hi again,
The quest for new amps pointed me in the direction of McIntoch as allready mentioned. The guy who wanted to sell his 501´s also has a set of almost new 1,2kw, and we are now "negotiating" the price for them. If we can come to an agreement, I would prefer to get them ower the 501´s. Primerly because they are more "top of the line", and I admit to beeing prone to top of the line gear. Also when there is no reason other than the emotional one. It´s like with cars.. I´d rather have the Audi RS6 opposed to the S6 even though I will never really take advantage of the surplus power.... if you know what I mean.. |
