Amp Stands - Wood or Stone


I'm in the process of relocating my audio equipment to a side wall and need to place my amps, AGD Audions, on something.  Floor is carpeted.  Stands will be very small and won't be supporting much weight.  I have access to granite, marble, etc. (next to nothing scape from remodel jobs).  Also, have pretty good relationship with a serious wood worker who is happy to cut maple, oak, cherry, most any hardwood, etc.  Cost is not really an issue just looking for an opinion / logic around which material I should use.  At this point, I'm thinking 1 1/2 to 2 inch thick walnut on some kind of cone / spike legs. Sorry for maybe a dumb question!

testrun

Showing 5 responses by pindac

I am a long term Tube user, Phonostages, Pre-Amp, Power Amps and later down the line introduced a Valve DAC.

How these devices are mounted does make a difference, to how the end sonic is perceived.

It is possible to create a tidied up end sound or an end sound that is messy.

The used Tube Input / Output Phonostages and DAC's using Tubes are very sensitive to the structure they are mounted on, as well as the Sub Plinth or Configurations for a Sub Plinth they are seated upon.

Valve Pre Amp's are also susceptible to being able to produce variances in the end sound when on a structure that is not ideally suited. The Sub Plinth or Configurations for a Sub Plinth a Pre-Amp is seated upon will show how the Bass can be Loosened or Tightened, depending on materials selected to be used.

Out of all Tube Devices used by myself and experienced in use in other systems, Power Amp's are notable for not being subtle in showing a discernible difference in an end sound, depending on the structure selected. The Sub Plinth or Configurations for a Sub Plinth a Power Amp is seated upon, is able to produce a sound that excels the Amp. The looseness of a Bass Note and Decay is very easy to detect for having tightened up, as the Amp is placed on differing Structures and Sub Plinths.

I have evolved in my investigations over many years creating a Structure and Sub Plinth Supports.

In my experiences had, Racks work at their best when seated on their own Sub Plinth. Racks also improve substantially when rigidly coupled. Sub Plinths in my experiences are usually at their best when made up as a Tiers using a variety of separators. Bypassing the devices footers can have a much improved effect, is a good substitute footer is discovered.

Granite has been a go to for numerous years as a Tier Material, numerous Board Materials have been used, where the one that proved most impressive over all Board Types was a highly compressed PUR Foam board that had mechanical properties.

In recent years all board materials used, have now been met with a material that is Superseding them. The material is a Phenolic Resin Impregnated Densified Wood Board, such as the products from the Brand Panzerholz or Permali.

These materials are not to be overlooked, they are being used in Speakers and Turntables, and can be found as well as Sub Plinths.

Phenolic Resin Impregnated Densified Wood, is the clue, a search will assist with finding Brands that have variants of how it is seen as a finished product.

Dymond Wood Board is supplied with a large range of colours, it is unknown if all colours are available in a dimension that would be suitable as Sub Plinth.

Veneering a Board is also an option, it is seen as a Method used for P'holz in both TT Plinths and Speaker Cabinets (Kaiser Speakers - Tankwood).      

   

The clue for finding a wider range of Board Material produced very similar to P'holz and Permali is searching for the following:

" Phenolic Resin Impregnated Densified Wood Board "

Some Companies using these Board Types give the materials an in house name, hence, Kaiser Speakers calling P'holz 'Tankwood'. 

As a guide to purchasing these Board Materials, the Board must be a Heat Treated Vacuum Compressed Board, which has a weight of approx' 1400Kg/m3.

There are PhenolIc Resin bonded boards that are not produced the same, the Boards can be produced as a non heated treated Vacuum Compressed and seen with a weight range from 800Kg/m3 - 1400Kg/m3.

When selecting a Board Type that is approx' 1400Kg/m3, there are a few other considerations.

The individual who originally tested and made public their measurements, which is where the interest started in using this material for Audio Purposes. When describing their test results and the attraction of the material, made it known that a 10mm thick board has all the intrinsic properties required to suit Audio purposes.

The Boards Tested have evolved in their construction and thicknesses and in general, it is accepted that a Board constructed with Cross Grain Plies, a 1mm Ply compressed to 0.5mm, where the commonly selected Board thickness seen selected today is 25mm ( 1"). A Board will typically be Cross Grain Plies using 50 Layers @ 1mm compressed by 50%.    

If Building a Rack that does not require too much height is also of interest and the Threaded Rod Support Method is a method that is acceptable.

The Link will show a alternative material well worth considering and one that would be a very good interface with a " Phenolic Resin Impregnated Densified Wood Board ". 

https://www.roechling.com/industrial/products/composites/laminated-densified-wood/fasteners

There is a experience easily able to be attained and for some, might have a pleasurable side. When trying support methods for Amp's both utilising Valves or not. As well as, when trying out other Audio Devices both utilising Valves or not.
Any changes that are wanted to be made to the support method for mounting  these device types. Can be relatively quick and easy to put in place, especially if the Cables attached are not restrictive to the moving of the devices, to an alternate support structure.

When I was intent on moving from the use of OFC Wire Type as the Signal Path Wire in a Cable. Where I was to adopt OCC Copper Wire for the Signal Path. I ended up having a few cables readily available as umbilical RCA Cables of a 5mtr length. Extended in length Power Cords were also on standby to be used at times to enable the ease of placing certain devices on different structures. 
As the learning about how a structure was able to impact on an end sound was of importance to me at this time. It was also useful to have in place a method to enable the speedy assessment of changes being made to a support structure. 

As a result of the creation of different structures to support Audio Devices and the impressions made of the experiences had. I today use Wall Mounted Shelves with Isolated Framing from the Wall and Isolated Platforms from the Framing for the CDT and Valve DAC.

With the present knowledge in use, when The TT is set up. It is seated on a Three Tier Structure, which is inclusive of a Sub/Sub-Sub/Sub-Sub-Sub  Plinth Design.
This Three Tier Sub Plinth Assembly is seated upon a Rack that is mounted on a 1/2" thickness Steel Sub Plinth.
The Steel Sub Plinth is mounted on Tiered Materials to produce the separation between floor and Steel Plate.

The Phonostages in use, especially the Valve Input /Output, are able to have their end sound loosened or tightened up depending on the Sub Plinth Material Type and configurations for the materials that are used in the assembly.
I have no concerns for loosening off the Bass a little when Blues Music is being replayed and tidying the Bass Up with some of the other genre of music used as replays.

The easiest way for myself to loosen of the Bass and add Colour is to swap out the ESL Speakers for a Cabinet Speaker Design. Depending on the configuration of the support for the Speakers the level of colouration detected can be quite broad, where the extent of distortion being heard can be very unattractive.

In relation to the systems Audio Devices bar the TT.
On many occasions, I have discovered, as well as demonstrated to others, how the method for the mounting Audio Devices being used, has shown significant improvements that are even notable when the end sound is being assessed.
Especially when methods used are an improvement as an alternative to the more commonly used method, where the device is seated on a typical support structure using the devices footers only as the contact with the support and the support structure is in direct contact with the floor.  

I will state with confidence, the use of Tiers of a Panzerholz Board, using AT 616 Footers as the separators for the Sub Plinths and Valve Power Amplifier. Creates a result in all environments this has been tried. Where the Power Amplifier is noticed to be improved. It is notable in some of the experiences had, how much the end sound is improved in the area of tidying up the Bass Notes. Using listeners in attendance assessments, from some of the contributors, it was suggested it was like a New Amp had been introduced. I stand in defence of such suggestions, there is without doubt change detected to the end sound that is a betterment.

I firmly believe there is not a ubiquitous solution, each environment will be dealt with for its own unique distribution of intrinsic energies being encountered.  

In relation to my own 845 Monoblock Power Amps, these Amp's are mounted on a not too commonly seen Sub Plinth Assembly. 
The Base Material is a Multi-Tier of an anti-vibration material which is used in Laboratories. The material is used prior to laying a Concrete Screed Flooring. The intention for the under Screed material, is to produce a sub-base in the Laboratory that  is much improved for reducing vibration, that can be transferred to sensitive Laboratory Equipment. 
Seated on the anti vibration material, is a Slab of Granite approx' 6' x 16"s x 8"s at a weight of approx' 800lb.
Seated on the Granite is Two Types of Foam one medium dense and the other substantially compressed. The 845 Amps are then mounted on the compressed foam, with Cork as the Amps Footers. The use of the AT 616 in place of the much much cheaper Cork Footers makes little, if any difference to the end sound, the Structure under the Amp's Footers is doing the hard work.
The positive in this structures performance is that the expensive AT 616 are freed up to be employed for other tasks where they benefit as being the Footer Type in conjunction with the support being used. 

I can put the 845's on the Carpet, or on a variety of differing materials as the support, but quite quickly the Amp's are wanted to be placed back on the bespoke support assembly.

I could have spent multiple Hundreds or even much much more to create the impression being made at present from this design for a support. 
I could have also saved my poor old back some considerable grief sad.
To achieve what is in use as a bespoke support for all the audio equipment, has not set me back too much monies for any of the materials or the configurations for the materials used. 
I am still remaining much better off financially than if I adopted the option for buying off the shelf Branded Designs to be used as a Support Structure. A search can easily put $10K as the required budget. 
Additionally, I am not aware if a more expensive option is able to produce an end sound that is a betterment. I do agree there is the convenience of Buying into a particular product type.  

Granite is very easy to discover cheap, getting the dimension required will add to the cost if an individual is not willing to do a cut to the Granite themselves to produce the dimension that is preferred. The large piece of referred to Granite was an Engineers Flat Surface Plate, bought local for less than £100.

The Highly compressed foam, was a chance discovery as a Board Material, it was sent for Damping /Dissipation Testing and measures improved over many board types. I collected this as a Off Cuts as a waste material, which enabled odeal board sizes to be cut.    

The material Panzerholz is one of the best measured materials for Damping /Dissipation for Audio Purposes, as stated, the material is slowly infiltrating being used into Branded Products.

Take the Brand Taiko and their Panzerholz Sub Plinths.
I got 10 x P'holz Boards to be used as a TT Plinth and Sub Plinths in similar dimensions to the Taiko Boards, for the same monies as the cost of one Taiko Board.
I have also gifted Plinth size Boards produced from P'holz to a few friends, who have produced their own TT Plinths from it.

There is one thing that can be taken from this, careful selection of Support Structure Methods and the selection for the Materials to be used, as well as the configuration for the materials. With certain Audio Equipment, when being used in certain environments. Will have a substantial impact on how the audio device is perceived for the end sound it produces.       
 

A Board Material that can be used to a good effect and one that does not need to have any expense attached to acquiring it for being used as a trial is Chipboard.

Chipboard is produced in different compressions for the particulate.

A Sub Plinth produced from a not too compressed Board will be one to show a difference that is perceivable as an improvement.

For myself it has been very effective as a Tier used under a Speaker, but this will also be useful under other devices.

If an individual wants to pretty up the raw material, then this will add a cost.