Great speakers. I own them also and have used several amps on them. Please let us know the type of music you listen to, the volume level, and your effective room size.
I owned two different push/pull tube amps putting out 50 and 60 watts and they sounded good for sure. However they both sounded a tad fragile when I turned up the volume on classical piano, low gain recodings, and classical music. These speakers do like power to really open up and sound more effortless. My room is also large, around 33x21 with 10 foot ceilings.
If your room is large and you listen loudly at times, then 50 watts may be cutting it close in terms of headroom. Again, it all depends on how you answer the questions I asked above.
I ended up with a Lyngdorf 2170 unit with room correction, dac, and preamp all in one unit. Best I have heard my Crescendos sound. The room correction assures the speakers sound as the designer intended in your room. The Crescendos sound wonderful in my untreated living room.
Some folks have had good luck with 845 tube amps made by Line Magnetics even though they are rated for under 50 watts. They are reported to have serious drive and sound great with your speakers. Look at their model 518 and 219. I am sure others will chime in on Line Magnetic.
Here are some other amps to consider.
Tube
Linear Tube Audio ZOTL 40 - must first answer the questions for ultimate compatibility.
Cary 805 used - must first answer the questions for ultimate compatibility
SS
Lyngdorf
Electrocompaniet amps used and in budget
Spread Spectrum Technologies Son of Ampzilla MK2
Spread Spectrum Technologies Ampzilla 2000 2nd Edition Mono Power Amplifiers - used
Hybrid ( great option)
Conrad Johnson ET250s
Aesthetix Atlas stereo amp used
Blue Circle audio used monoblock amps used
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Thanks for getting back. Well then yes the Line Magnetic and LTA ZOTL 40 should work great for you. Two great choices. If you dont want to mess with tubes and all that goes with owning a tube amp, then Pass Labs makes some great amps that you could afford used. The 250x for example. The Lyngdorf 2200 is amazing also and runs cool while being light and small. Only $2400 new.
Electrocompaniet makes some of the very best sounding SS amps on the planet. Harder to find used. The McIntosh 402 amp is also very special. Finally the Conrad Johnson ET250s is great sounding and will deliver exactly what you are looking for based on your post. It is a hybrid amp that uses small signal tubes on the input section. Sweet sounding, yet is has the power to control and open up the AZ speakers. The signal tubes are not expensive and last for for many years. No problem running the amp for long periods of time. $2999 new from Spearit Sound on sale. Great price.
I have had better luck with more SS watts on the Crescendo as the speaker just sounds more relaxed, in control, and bass powerful with plentiful SS or hybrid watts. Great quality watts as my suggestions are.
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Wig, I will add everyone should bypass their speaker binding posts for better sound. Same goes for the amp’s binding posts. Lastly, don’t use any speaker cable spades or bananas if possible. This, as you are starting to learn, makes the music more real and less electronic or reproduced. Really hear what your gear is possible of! These are free mods that do more for sound improvement than the numerous tweaks we all spend hundreds of dollars and more on.
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@wig
I have a few questions on your amp.
- Do you hear any hum/buzz through your speakers a foot away? 3 feet away?
- Do the transformers make a mechanical buzz noise you can hear when the room is quiet? Not through the speakers, but simply emanating from the physical amp.
- How loudly do you listen when you go loud? Did you ever capture with a db meter?
- How many hours are those 805 tubes good for in that amp before they need replacing?
- Do you know if the amp is circuit board built or hard wired/tag strip. I could not find internal pics of your amp. Other LM amps are a combo of point to point wiring with only a two or three very small circuit boards.
- Finally, can you bypass the volume control with a direct input option on the back of the amp?
Thanks!
Bill |
Thanks Wig. Enjoy listening tonight. I am doing the same!
Do do you get your Duelund wire as yet to try as jumpers? |
Hi Kenny.
No I am not, but I wanted to know more facts for the poster. If the poster wants a tube amp it seems like a solid choice. I simply have my system on far too much to run a tube amp. My Lyngdorf unit is just spectacular with my mods and the simplicity is hard to adbandon.
I owned a very special set of tube monoblock amps made and customized by Von Gaylord (Legend Triode) that competes with any tube amp costing up to $12,000 that I have heard. I have heard many. I paired it with my Super Hot Rod version of the TRL Dude preamp and a superb Luxman DA06 dac.
The Lyngdorf simply gave up nothing and actually improved some areas. Few know about it or will even try it, but I am the lucky one:)
No, it is going nowhere. Now I do have the ability to use it as a preamp, dac, and room correction unit with a separate amp if I choose. I have tried several amps with it, both tube and SS, but always come back to the Lyndorf on its own. It just draws me into the music more.
I am am considering trying a First Watt amp and comparing just to see. Not sure it has enough power however. 40 watts into 4 ohms? My experience has been the AZ Crescendo can play with 30 watts, but plays better with over 100 watts.
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Wig, I also run a single wire up the bass to the high frequencies with no jumpers. Simply strip some 5 inches of the Duelund wire and wrap around each post in a continuous run. No connectors needed for best sound. Now I liked the 16 gauge a lot, but found the 12 gauge had a tad more body and weight. The 12ga is a tad less lively than the 16 ga. For me that was a good thing. Now the Western Electric 10 gauge is also,very, very special and the warmest of the three. It happens to be what I am using right now. Here is a link to the wire I am now using. http://www.ebay.com/itm/per-foot-Western-Electric-AIW-10ga-STRANDED-cloth-covered-gray-PAIR-/2316636...I did aother mod to my Crescendos. Ha! Pretty soon they need to be called another speaker! I used Soundcoat constrained layer damping to damp each of the woofer frame baskets. I like the result thus far. |
Kenny, mod that 508! Bypass those poor sounding binding posts! I know you have skills. Modifying that amp is not for the timid as I am sure you will find 700-1000 Vdc, not 375-500. Ouch!
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Kenny I like the Soundcoat product that Sonic Craft sells for the inside of electronics. Not conductive and works just great. Just to pricey for the bottom of Audio rack shelving and woofer baskets.
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Thanks Wig. Very modest listening levels for sure. I am going to listen to Julian today. |
I do not listen at 90db as that is simply too loud for me most of the time, I do listen at levels over 73-78 db at times for sure. I think many aphiles do. We would all be surprised at how loudly we play our music at times.
I find the better a system is the more likely you are to turn it up a tad more and enjoy. Why? Because a well put together stereo system will not sound too loud (noisy) at 83-90 db or so. Noise does indeed play a role here. The music and scale of the performance swells and surrounds you without sounding "loud". This only happens in a system with this capability. This is why leaving enough headroom in your speaker/amp combo is so vitally important.
I have put together many systems that sound wonderful at lower volumes, but show signs of noise and strain when turned up. Many of the mods and tweaks I do address this very issue. Well executed power supplies are so important etc... I don’t want my music to sound more reproduced and forced as I turn it up. I want it to remain engaging with a sense of ease that does not force me to turn it down. This is a particularly difficult thing for a system to do right. Particularly difficult for my ears as I have a touch of tinnitus.
It is also true that a nicely resolved system will sound very satisfying at lower volumes for the reasons you point out. Many want both opportunities in their systems.
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Charles, I am confident Wig’s system scales both ends of the db spectrum to his satisfaction. It does as I have spoken and emailed him directly. I am saying one needs to know what one wants in a system, understand the limitations of a given system combo, and go from there. No system is perfect and tradeoffs are enevitable. Just understand them upfront.
There are several roads to the same set of sonic priorities and not all of those roads must include a certain kind of amplifier or preamp. We play systems, not amplifiers, and the audio landscape is serving up some exciting new ways to sonic bliss. Buckle up as we are in for a ride and tomorrow’s gear, close proximity tommorrow that is, will bust up some of our current conventional wisdom. Frankly, it is happening right now.
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Kenny you just wrote exactly what I am thinking and chose not to share🙂
One box solutions without all the ICs, power cords, digital cables, longer signal paths, additional noise and complexity are indeed the future. No doubt about it. What is coming, and here now for room correction, will be and is so impressive! Our walls and rooms will be invisible to our future systems! This alone will and has brought sonic improvements impossible not that long ago. We will be able to use software and small chips (something like this) to taylor the sound if you want. Want that DHT SET sound, then you can have it without the additional noise. Want that 100 watts of Class A SS sound, then you can have it without all the heat. Want absolute neutrality, you can have it. So much more than I can think of on my own.
I am an innovation professional and sense we are in the midst of historic sonic improvement. These are special times and unique in all of audio history. The technology is more disruptive in nature than even the tubes to SS thing that happened decades ago.
Anyway, now is the time to have an open mind and explore the possibilities. I am very attracted to tubes on so many levels, but the reality is I must be open to a future which will bring many wonderful options.
I will end my little "excitable boy" post with one word......noise. Until you hear a system/electronics that has all but eliminated it, you just don't understand all the noise you are living with in your system. Noise is sonic bliss's enemy #1. It obscures detail, nuance, tone, ebb & flow, and emotion at all volumes. Innovation will incarcerate this sonic criminal.
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For the OP. The Lyngdorf 2170 I own with my Crescendo speakers does not sound like a 50 watt PP tube amp, or 845, or 805 amp. There are tradeoffs. There are two main benifits this unit brings to your system. First, It removes noise you had no idea was mixed in with your favorite music. It is uncanny and arresting at first. Noise always sounds louder and even impressive at first. However, it is robbing your system and ears of fidelity. I hear more of the music and all that was intended in the recording. Yes, I can turn it up and want to because the noise is greatly reduced . I am sure the future will bring even more improvement.
Secondly, What the room correction did for my system’s sound was also arresting. Both these things outweigh the lack of "tubes" reality in my system. Again, there are always tradeoffs. At least for now, the future will bring far less☺️
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Charles, my noise comment goes for all other system combinations I have experienced ranging from all tube to all SS and a mix of the two. Noise is a result of many things beyond a tube. I am not saying, did not say, the Lyngdorf is the latest and greatest. I am not saying, did not say, it is as good as the LM508. It is different and does some things better for sure. Cannot compare the two as the Lyndorf unit should be used on its own with no separate dac or preamp. It's greatness in found when utalizing all it does as a complete system. However, I am saying it represents what is coming - gives a taste of it. What is coming in the digital domain with all in one units will in fact render today’s tube and other non-tube gear a distant second. The Lyndorf unit is not some sort of holy grail unit in my opinion, but it does address areas that innovation will continue to refine and improve. Innovation, in this regard, will indeed be most positive for every flavor of aphile.
Being open minded is a reference to all aphiles and our individual biases and experiences. Innovation will transcend this limited perspective.
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Understand fully stfoth. I really do. I will always have "some" tube amp in my home as I am in love the design and building of these pieces. |
Let's build this unit Charles. A DHT 300b tube output amp with SOTA room correction and built in dac. We can address further noise reduction with a cutting edge hybrid pre and amp section. |
Charles, for some reason you are narrowing my comments down to a particular brand? Devialet? Your missing the point it seems even though I have tried to be clear. I suppose this happens often on threads like this. Hard to fully express some things in such short bursts. Our frame of reference and perspective is very differet regarding present day audio innovation and most likely on innovation in general. You look back and focus on examples that cause you say " been there, heard that and nothing special here" My perspective is different and no reason to go into it here.
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wlutke, You do have many good choices in front of you. I suggest actually listening to a couple in your system before buying. Some of the amps I mentioned can be tried in your home and kepted or returned. Nice option for sure.
The Lyngdorf is one choice that would bring many changes including selling your preamp, cabling etc... So it would require more changes and may not be the most attractive option to you? I shared several others based on my actual experience with them. All great options also.
Your speakers are fantastic and there is a great big world out there of options. Enjoy the process and your music!
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Yeah, the seller is getting a new face plate for it or so the listing says.
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@wlutke
Did you purchase an amp as yet? If you should decide to buy SS, then I saw this set of amps that are just spectacular. They offer the type of sound and improvements you mentioned in your first post. They would be a great pairing with your speakers. Monoblocks, but with a smaller foot print.
Understand if you want a tube amp as they are also wonderful. Just another option should you need it.
Electrocompaniet amps are very musical, tube like, SS amps. I do not know the seller at all as an FYI.
Model AW180. US Audio Mart
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You are correct Al as usual. |
@almarg ,
I have a question for you. The Lyngdorf does use a very small inductor and .47uf cap on the output just before the speaker binding posts. How important do you think the quality, sound wise, of the cap is in this position? Since the entire signal, it is in the signal path, is going through the cap I would think this is not a place to skimp on a $2 cap?
This assumes ones thinks caps sound different. I do 😁 |
Thanks Al.
Here is why I ask. I mod lots of gear and usually hear differences. I have modified this unit removing those Wima .47uf caps at the output. I replaced them with some decent Jupiter HT caps. I did hear an improvement and that is fine. However, I then decided to add the new Duelund silver foil bypass caps .01uf. Ok, now the improvement is VERY noticeable. So much so I had to ask you this question. The improvement across the board is very obvious and good. Trying to get an objective basis for my subjective experience.
I loved the unit before the mod and now I am smiling even bigger. We read a lot about expectation bias and I wonder sometimes. I felt I was open minded during this mod. Right now am hearing a considerably improved sound. It is very easy to hear the differences, but I have to wonder why the builder did not try and improve on that Wima part. I know it costs etc...I looked inside the unit and that particular part/position just stuck out.
It never ceases to surprise me of the level of sound refinement and improvement that can be had on highly regarded and reviewed gear with just a couple of nice upgrades. Or is it expectation bias? 😕
I have completed mods that I did not like and many that I have. |
Good for you! Most would not attempt this. Well done. |
