@georgehifi I am surprised that you would think a warmish amp is need with the NS5000. I heard these with the latest Yamaha separates and thought the system sounded warm. I was thinking something a little more neutral would also work.
Saying that I plan on using the Luxman m900u with the NS5000 which I will also get. I think most people think the Lux is slightly warm.
I saved a post about different categories of amps (warn, cool, neutral) from everyone's fav A'gon dealer since I thought it was great info. I was about to post that info but decided that it would cause too many veins to explode. Op will get a private message with the info.
|
@smodtactical What gear did Markus use to demo the NS 5000? My demo had the new Yamaha separates at $10K each. I sounded very good and they are only 100W @ Ohmn.
https://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio_visual/hifi_components/m-5000/index.html
This speaker has the detail but it is also soft on top. The local dealer that carries the NS 5000 has the new SimAudio 860 v2
https://simaudio.com/en/product/860a-v2-power-amplifier/?v=7516fd43adaa
I will ask them to hook them up to the NS5000 to them before I buy them. I will buy the NS5000 but want to hear SimAudio with them. They sounded great with the Persona 5F which is a much different speaker from the NS5000. I will likely do a head to head comparison, in the same room with the same gear, between the NS5000 and the Persona 5F. I am thinking of the Persona 9H for another room. |
@georgehifi Thanks for the heads up on the Sound Stage review. I was thinking of also getting the Benchmark AHB2 to mix and match with the Luxman m900u on the NS5000 and KEF LS50 that I will have in the same room. The NS5000 + AHB2 could be a bad combo (similar to Halcro?) though the AHB2 was very good with the KEF LS50. What do you think of the AHB2 with the NS5000?
Another amp that I was considering for this mix and match ensemble I am planning is the CODA # 8 or #16. I have a demo setup for the #8 anytime I get down to Los Angeles. A few people have commented that the CODA is comparable to a PASS Labs. The CODA could be too similar to the Luxman to make it a good choice for having variety in the ensemble.
Preamp | Streamer | DAC - likely the Mola Mola Makua |
@smodtactical I have previously considered the Hegel 590 or 390 since I have demoed the 360 and top end monoblocks with KEF Blades and thought it was very good, not as good as the Luxman, but something I could be very happy with long term. https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lisa1176-hegel-h590-integrated-amplifier-multi-channel-amps Every time I see this integrated or the 390 I keep asking myself why not just get this and make my life simpler. I think it would be a very good match with the NS5000. (390 is ROON READY and 590 will get update soon) I just remembered that I demoed the Mark Levinson 585 integrated with Magico A3 speakers. At one time I was going to get that before I went on the separates tangent. However, the 585 is excellent, not as good as the Mark Levinson separates but almost as good for massively less money.
https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lisa0i26-mark-levinson-no-585-solid-state
For a short range solution you can sell all you gear and get one of these integrateds to do the same thing. I forgot if the ML 585 does streaming like the Hegel. I have had the Bryston 7B-SST and Bryston PowerPack 300 SST (same as your 4B-SST) and I can definitely say both the older Hegel and the Mark Levinson sounded better to me. |
@jtgofish What gear have you tried with your NS5000's. |
I mentioned to smodtactical that I thought it would be an upgrade from 4B-SST to 14B-SST2 for 2 reasons.
1) The SST line is a little coarse on top. I owned 4B-SST, PowerPac 300, and 7B-SST for many years with various speakers, I know Bryston. The SST2 line is a little smoother on top and will be appreciated by the NS5000.
2) Going from 4B to the more powerful 7B was beneficial with my inefficient Revel Salon 1 in a big way. I also had a large room and played it loud those days (ah the memories). Not sure if the NS5000 needs that
much power or if the OP plays his system loud.
The 14B-SST2 is almost as good as the 7B-SST2. The 7B is slightly better because it is housed in 2 chassis which provides some slight spec increases. |
@smodtactical I believe you need some power for these speakers. The Pass looks totally unsuited for the NS 5000. I believe you like to listen with some volume and you mentioned that you also have a bigger room in the cards for the speakers.
If you are looking for that Class A sound from PASS, I mentioned to you to have a listen to the CODA #8 and/or #16. There is a dealer up in Winnipeg that is always advertising on USAudiomart.com CODA equipment and has good prices. @Teajay has done some reviews and posted info on this web site about CODA. Some folks who I have PM’ed with on A’gon, and own these amps, really love them. The #16 is 100 watts of Class A and total of 150 with a beefy power supply. I only mention them because you like PASS.
I have a callback from a dealer to audition the CODA #16 when they get them in. I will take the new gear I bought for the NS 5000 to the audition, the Benchmark HPA4 preamp ($3k) and DAC3B ($1.7K). I was planning on a much more expensive DAC but wanted to give the DAC3B a try with the HPA4 for synergy. Love the combo, at worst the DAC3B is a backup but for now it is very satisfying.
I recently also bought a Meze Empy headphones ($3K) that has similar sound signature to the NS5000 (headphones are the main source of music in the pandemic, don’t ask). The combination with the neutral Benchmarks and Empy is so enjoyable. I have decided to get the Benchmark AHB2 monoblocks for $6K a pair for my future NS5000. It will be an all Benchmark system. I know it will be phenomenal. I am stating the prices because I think this is rather low cost for the sound I am getting. I owned the AHB2 before so I know it’s sound signature.
I also need a second amp for my existing speakers, so the Luxman m900u or CODA are the amps I am considering for that. Whatever, works the best with the HPA4 preamp. The AHB2 will be the main amps on the NS 5000 but I will occasionally use the other amp with the NS 5000. I will manually flip the 15 foot XLR interconnects between amps from the preamp output.
I know you are not that impressed by this AHB2 choice but I am so sure of this choice for the NS 5000, especially now after listening to the Empy’s. |
@ smodtactical Not yet, I am buying that last. I got a new DAC, preamp, headphones, and XLR’s this month. A pair of AHB2 amps are next and then the second amp. The speakers are going to be last because I think Yamaha will release a smaller NS 4000 sometime this year. They have already released a NS 3000 monitor. A smaller speaker would work better in my room, which is smaller than yours. However, if that does not come out then I will get the NS 5000 and use the Convolution file processing on ROON that I mentioned to you before to fit the speaker in the room.
I get the AHB2 after July 15th USA tax day. The second amp I hope around September. |
I have heard a few TAD’s over the years. My favorite being the TAD ME1. The Luxman stack that was hooked up to them likely contributed to the phenomenal sound. In my opinion, it is over priced at $15K with stands. The NS 5000 blows it out of the water at the same price, but that room thing is important to consider. The TAD CR1 is also some serious coin and that puts a damper on my appreciation of it
In my room the TAD ME1 would fit seamlessly without any need for the Convolution files or other DSP approaches. I do feel the Yamaha drivers sound better than any Beryllium driver I have heard, including TAD, Paradigm, Magico, Usher, Focal, and others I have forgot about.
There are other monitors that are out now that are much cheaper than the TAD ME1 and maybe as good. The Magico A1, the Yamaha NS 3000, the new Vivid S12 (?). If TAD had priced the ME1 lower they could have sold a ton since it is an excellent sounding unit. TAD actually lowered the price of the ME1 to $10K for 3 months and then boosted it back up to $15K so that it sounds better to audiophile ears.
I think both of us would benefit from a speaker bigger than the NS 3000 and smaller than the NS 5000. I think NS 4000 is in the cards for Yamaha. I have less interest in the NS 3000 than the NS 5000. I would rather go too large than too small. |
@arctikdeth What is unique about that 12' woofer is that it is made from the same material as the tweeter and mid-range. I don't think anyone else making a box speaker can make that claim. I could hear the benefit of the 3 drivers made of the same material. Not saying this is the best speaker I have heard but it is right up there. |
@smodtactical
Since someone above mentioned the Luxman spearates let me chime in since no one asked :)The Luxman separates are amazing and was going to be my choice for the NS 5000. However the following issues made made get a different preamp.
1) The Luxman c900u is big
2) The Luxman c900u supposedly require decent XLR’s (so $$$)
3) I want to keep my preamp far away from the amps since I do not have that much space (15 foot XLR’s). I do not want too much stuff in-between the speakers.
4) I am not that much of a tube fan and the c900u sound kind of tubey to me. I know the c900u is SS internally.
I was conflicted about not getting the c900u and pairing with the m900u since it is a natural pairing. However, I decide to get the super transparent and neutral Benchmark HPA4 preamp instead of the Luxman c900u preamp since it does all 4 of those items listed above better for my needs. My virtual system photos shows the slow progression of this system build out.
I will pair the HPA4 with the Luxman m990u or maybe even the new CODA as my second choice amps. Who knows maybe they become my #1 choice for amps on the Yamaha.
Yamaha demos the NS 5000 with their new 5000 separates. This is the combo I heard them with. The Yamaha separates are $10K each vs $15K each for the Luxman. You should do some research on the Yamaha 5000 Series amp and see what specs Yamaha decided was needed for the NS 5000. The sound was a bit like the Luxmans to me but I could not really tell if I preferred the Yamaha separates because my demo was in a bad room.
*************************
One thing I remember reading on some amp review was that a bigger power amp can benefit the speakers when playing at low volumes. I think it was a Hegel 590 review that was talking along those lines.
|
You should try the KRELL Duo XD lineup on the NS5000, even the k-300i integrated (also XD) would work. It is buttery smooth and slightly warm. I was going to move my CODA #16 to the Livingroom to setup with the NS5000. However, I have no time and it would be very disruptive. So, I am keeping the CODA #16 in my office with the Magnepan LRS+ and KC62 sub. It is an amazing setup. I might as well keep this together and look for other amps for the NS5000.
Now that I have heard the NS5000 in my home, I am thinking the KRELL XD lineup would be very nice with the NS5000. My only issue is the size of the amps. I am limited in my space where the NS5000 resides, one reason I have not taken the CODA #16 downstairs to the NS5000.
The bass on the NS5000 is beautiful. The KRELL and CODA would be great with that bass. I owned the KRELL 175XD before, so I know from experience. The CODA #8 would also be pretty good sonically and smaller in size than the KRELL and #16. Though having 2 amps from the same company is not that interesting.
I am also looking at some newer Class D GAN or Purifi amps in mono format. I will be using the modded Peachtree GAN1 until Jan 1, 2024. I will then be able to afford a new amp for the NS5000. My preamp will be the Benchmark LA4 for the NS5000 and the Holo Serene for the CODA #16 and LRS+. The idea is a completely silent preamp and flavoured with the amp.
BTW - the KRELL XD is 180 degrees away from the Benchmark AHB2 sound, which I rave about. I think I am not going with the AHB2. I want to make sure that big bass driver can sing with power.
|
I think the KRELL is a little less warm than the PASS. It is incredibly smooth and such a relaxing listen. What I describe is not my usual preference, but that KRELL is such a great listen. If the amp was not so big, I would not even hesitate in buying the Duo 300XD listed locally for $6250.
The bass on the KRELL is like the CODA #16, or a tiny bit less, it is not the most detailed as the AHB2 or #16 but it is not lacking in detail either. A dealer I am working with thinks the KRELL is not as warm as the CODA. I disagree on that.
Now that I think about it the KRELL K-300i integrated would likely work well for me. Since it is not that big and has power, great sound, a DAC, and streamer. It is not as good as my separates path, but it is a simple solution and really good sonically. I need to think about that again. I owned the K-300i a few years ago.
|
How far apart do you keep the NS5000? I have them only 6-feet apart and sit about 8-9 feet away. The room has 25-foot ceilings and a lot of open space on both sides.
|
I heard the Yamaha M-5000 stack with the NS5000 and I said pass.
I found out that I can sell one of my headphone amps tonight after finally setting up my CODA #16 as a headphone amp. I am using a custom made 25 foot cable to the amp. It sounded great and looks a bit crazy.
What that means is that I can replace the modded Peachtree GAN1 with a separate amp fairly soon. The GAN1 can be used for headphone duty. I think I will give the German SPL s1200 amp a shot with my Benchmark LA4 preamp. Never heard it but people are saying things about it that match what I am looking for.
|
I think Pass is warmer than both the CODA and KRELL XD I owned. I have not owned PASS but have heard them a few times.
|
Both the Class AB and Class A Pass are warmer than the CODA #8 + #16 and KRELL DUO 175XD + K-300i (I owned all of them except Pass). The KRELL is not so much warm, it is super smooth. I posted on here that was smooth like butter. The CODA is slightly warm and the #16 is kind of like the Benchmark AHB2 but with massive power.
Luxman m900u is also warmer than the CODA and KRELL to my ears. Luxman is closer to Pass for me.
|
I was listening to a bit from my upstairs office today as my speakers were played loud for some break-in. I was reading some online comments that said the NS5000 sounds like a musical instrument. I had some Moby playing and he had some slow piano on a track. I understood the musical instrument comment from that track. Sounded like I had a piano in the room. This is a really hi-end speaker. I have not even set it up properly or got the gear I want to use with it.
When I demoed the NS5000 it was in the worst possible room, and they did not want to move the speaker for me. I bought from someone else after that, though they did get my business for the LRS+. I have never really heard what the NS5000 is capable of. I just knew that even in that crappy glass walled conference room, the NS5000 was way more coherent than the other speakers from Vivid and Magico that I had demoed at other dealers.
My fav speaker is the KEF Blade and I think I like that more but the drivers on the NS5000 are likely better and some of the best in the world. I got the NS5000 over the Blade for safety issues with young kids around the gear.
I heard a Harbeth SLH 6.5+ (or something like that version) with, at that time, the most expensive Luxman stack. It was surprisingly good, but I think the NS500 is cleaner or clearer sounding, and that 12-inch bass driver matches the mid and tweeter so nicely. The coherency with the 3 drivers is amazing. That was the main reason I did not buy the Magico A3 after hearing the NS5000. All 3 drivers are made from the same Zylon material which is supposed to be lighter and stronger than the very popular Beryllium. The Yamaha NS1000 was supposed to be the first speaker using Beryllium in the 1970’s.
When I heard the Harbeth + Luxman I said this is really nice but I did not want to buy it. With the NS5000 I have goosebumps and my setup is not good yet nor is the speaker broken in. I am also using a modded PeachTree GAN1 (while an amazing modded unit) I do not think it is the very best I could do.
As I listen to the Magnepan LRS+ with my CODA #16 in my small ofiice, I am starting to think a CODA #8 should be what I use with the NS5000. I need something smaller in the Livingroom, so no CODA #16.
|
@smodtactical I have never had a Pass in the house but hear it as a warmer amp than the CODA and new KRELL XD (from shows and dealer). I spent close to 2 hours listening to the Luxman c900u+m900u and also the 509x with Harbeth. I liked it at that time and thought the m900u was what I would get. The c900u was too warm for me. I like a super neutral preamp like my Benchmark LA4 and hopefully the soon to arrive Holo Serene.
I think the m900u would likely be excellent with the NS5000. I heard the Yamaha M-5000 separates and they did not move me like the c900u and m900u. The modded Peachtree GAN1 with the NS5000 maybe the best experience listening to a system. Kind of crazy.
I never got the Luxman because I heard the KRELL K-300i integrated and then upgraded to the KRELL Duo 175XD and I said to myself that I like this more than the Luxman. If fact, the plan was to buy the new uber KRELL i400 amp, but it is too big and heavy, and I now want to use those funds on a DAC (next year).
I think you would like the Luxman a lot since you like a bit more warmth in the tone than me. I think it is an amazing amp, just like the KRELL XD and CODA.
The Luxman may not be as powerful as the other 2. I only say this based on online comments. I would never say that about the KRELL or CODA.
|
A neutral amp for me is the Benchmark AHB2 and others such as SimAudio, Purifi.
The Luxman is nothing like these amps. It is much warmer so the frame of reference for these people saying the Luxman is neutral must be a much warmer tone.
|
|
