Am I really smart or really stupid?

You would notice the difference between the Yamaha C2 and the C2A preamplifier. The C2A was a major improvement over the C2 and is reflected in used prices. This old stuff sounds great with one caveat: it is approaching 30 years old and you have to assume that service is required on all of this old stuff. I have been there and done that and it is not cheap unless YOU do the work yourself.

There are so many excellent values on the used market made within the past ten years that a piece that is 25 years old has to be rather exceptional to be of interest (think McIntosh MC225, Bedini 25/25).

A new Antique Sound Lab tubed phono section at less than 300 new with some basic mods can sound very good is what people in these forums have reported. Used preamps such as an Audible Illusions Modulus 3 (say 700, 650) or an Audio Note M2 Phono (around 900 used) are good values and very, very good.

Bomarc,
Did you forget about enclosures that should preferably be marble or chrome face he..he..? That costs money.
How'bout adding some weight so that the consumer will feel its weight and understand that it's truely well-engineered product ...?

I guess I kinda oversimplified what I was trying to say. In response to some of your points, I would offer:

First off, vinyl is by no means a MAJOR consideration to me. I probably have 250-300 albums that I have kept. I might listen to vinyl 2-3 days a month. I don’t plan to put a lot of money into new ones.

I know I can get better stuff today but in playing with hifi for the last 40 years or so, I firmly believe, in my increasingly feeble mind, that you hit a point of diminishing returns fairly quickly. Then you have to spend a hell of a lot of money for precious little sonic improvement.

Most of you out there have known Yamaha after it’s decent into mediocrity. Back then, while it was not the pinnacle of hifi, they made some pretty good stuff. I have a friend that still has a B-2, C-2 T-2 into a pair of Acoustats and it ain’t bad, even by today’s standards. As far as that goes, a Sherwood S-5000 integrated amp into a pair of AR-3s (my Daddy’s system in ’58, and what got me started) would stand up pretty well, as long as you were just listening to the music.

I’m sorry but I do believe there are a lot of wolf tickets out there. This whole hobby has gotten crazy. To go “high end” you spend $3500 for a table, $2500 for an arm, $2000 for a phono stage, $3500 for a cartridge and $1500 for a cable. Folks, that’s $13,000.00 for a record player!! Your friends may be impressed, but I’m not. And I also don’t think it’s 13 times better than a LP-12 and my old dilapidated C-2. (Ooops, you got me started)

An interesting aside, the C-2 is the same one I had from ’79 to ’82, when I jumped back into tubes. I sold it to a friend, who gave it to his son, who got into home theater. I bought it back for 100 bucks.

I’ll bet you can tell a hell of a lot more difference between a Saturn and a Porsche than you can between a NAD 320 integrated amp and Lamm separates.

I guess the bottom line is I know there is better stuff to buy. A lot of folks would not be happy with it but it seemed like a reasonable approach for me and I’m OK with it. It might sound “cheap” but it’s all part of my determination to listen to the music, not the equipment, and quit chasing the Holy Grail!

All in good fun,

jp

re:Bin. I have used x's products through the years because they are so cheap. But they all suck. I never can learn my lesson.

Tarsando, how would you know they suck? What else have you owned that betters them? I am not saying they are the holy grail but that sometimes what we think are midfi components can offer good value. My system is by most standards ok. I have around 50K invested after many years in this business. What sense is there in perpetuating the fact that you have to spend mega dollars to get great sound? It simply isnt true. If you beleive differently then you are simply ignorant. Almost any turntable will sound better than the most exspensive cd player etc.. There are lots of great values out there.... Paradigm, Electronic Visionary Systems etc. etc.. The list goes on. Listen with your ears instaed of your eyes and you may learn something.