Stockfisch just released "Bassface Swing Trio Plays Gershwin" on D2D, DVD-A and CD. See http://store.acousticsounds.com/browse_detail.cfm?Title_ID=37495
This is good piano trio jazz (think Bill Mays or Charlap level), exceptionally well recorded and all packaged together, so you can get a valid comparison. On my system vinyl wins, but I suspect that the DVD-A will come close or win after my Pioneer 58AV universal player comes back from Ric Schultz's mods. Using a stock Oppo, the digital was a little harder, but I think it's in the machine rather than the DVD-A. The CD isn't close.
The price is steep ($99 for a limited edition), but the music is fine, far surpassing other "audiophile" recordings like "Jazz at the Pawnshop".
Dave |
One problem with vinyl is getting high quality LPs. Are you listening to many 180 and 200 gram version and 45 rpm versions? There are many new jazz reissues on 45 rpm that are stunning. I've got several of the Tacets and agree that they're wonderful. The Count Basie reissues and almost all Pablo reissues are wonderful.
The fact that your "best" experience to date is with the Tacet vinyl makes me think that your front end can deliver and you just don't have the best LPs. There's not a ton of great new classical reissues out there, so if that's your preference, then you've got a tougher search. Lyrita, Mercury, old RCAs, Harmonia Mundi are some of the better classical labels that had good pressing back in the old days.
Happy hunting.
Dave |
One easy test of current recordings is Nora Jones, with all her stuff available on both 180 gram vinyl and CD. It's very well recorded with wide dynamic range and a lot of subtle sounds. In my system, the CDs sound fine and if I didn't have vinyl I'd be pretty happy, BUT the vinyl is a good 10% better in resolution, detail and lack of grain in the sound.
I've got a collection of about 1200 LPs, almost all purchased new by me, going back to around 1959. The quality varies widely, but I've got a lot of really good stuff, particularly D2D stuff from the '70s and '80s. Most of the collection is very satisfying, but it varies. For instance, I love my original pressing of James Taylor's stuff fromt he '60s, '70s and '80s is really excellent; however, Linda Ronstadt's stuff from the same era is overly compressed and mostly disappointing (Peter Asher producer, if you want a name to avoid).
It's a trial an error process finding labels and artists that you like.
Anyway, back to my premise, if you can't hear a difference between the Nora Jones vinyl and the same CDs, then you're probably wasting time with vinyl OR you need to improve your vinyl front end.
Dave |
Dan, the SACD and vinyl versions of Nora Jone's "Come Away With Me" are likely to be VERY close to each other. I don't have the SACD, but I've got the CD and that's not as good as vinyl by a significant degree. I will venture to say that the SACD and vinyl versions will be extremely close together.
When I make DVD-A recordings of my vinyl (mostly the incredible old D2D recordings) it's very hard to hear a difference. (I record at DSD 1-bit 5.6MHz and then downconvert to DVD-A.) Given equivalent masters, I could be as happy with 2-channel DVD-A as vinyl. In fact, as soon as music server comes along that stores and plays back at DVD-A levels, I'll convert my collection and use that as my main source.
Meantime, I'm mostly buying vinyl and DVD-A for stuff not available on vinyl. For stuff available only on CD I buy CD.
As I said, I don't think the diffence between vinyl and SACD is going to blow you away. At that sampling rate digital is getting into a nice pocket. Of course you need good equipment, but most SACD players are relatively high quality.
Dave |
Particularly on classical, you really have to consider the label and the era. Early RCAs are great, Bis, Lyrita and a few others are uniformly great sounding. Later RCAs generally suck. Columbia is all over the board in quality, but usually has good artists. Sheffield, Crystal Clear and some other sudiophile labels have consistantly good sound quality but very mixed artistic values.
Anyway, over many years I've gotten to where my successful hit ratio is pretty high with vinyl.
Dave |
01-21-08: Ncarv said:
"This does not make sense to me . . . comparing the same recording on LP vs. CD, I can't remember an instance when the CD sounded better than vinyl, assuming the LP is not a beat up copy. Even then, the sonics are superior on the LP."
What's not to understand? The OP is questioning the quality of his vinyl front end, so we're suggesting that he compare it to CD using the same recording. If vinyl's not superior, then there may be some trouble with his TT/cartridge/phono-pre that's limiting its potential. You yourself have compared CD and vinyl, so why do you find it strange that someone else would want to?
Dave |
His analog system is high enough quality that it should exceed CD quality. CDs will not generally sound as good and it won't be particularly close. If he's not achieving that, then he needs to look into his analog setup, not buying new equipment, but making sure that everything is properly installed. Finding a good CD/LP to compare is just a step and it's relatively inexpensive.
Still, since he's used to very good digital he's only going to be happy with really good vinyl. That's the way I am, mostly buying 180 and 200 gram and/or 45rpm or D2D. For digital I buy DVD-A whenever offered then "high performance" CDs and finally RedBook CDs, in that order, depending on what's available.
Average vinyl will NOT trump high end digital, IMHO.
Dave |
Well, of course, if you use the same IC of the same length between the phono-stage/pre-amp and digital-source/pre-amp.
Dave |
Dan, thanks for the followup, since we often don't hear how things end. Once you get things relocated let us know how the move worked.
Dave |
