2. analog
  3. 133024-3034

aluminum platter vs Acrylic not what I thought

I recently got to hear a VPI scout with an aluminum platter and various platter mats.  I am having a hard time trying to understand where the fascination with aluminum is coming from.  The acrylic sounds far better.  Its not even close to my ears.  Is it that some people just never heard the scout with the acrylic platter?  I would strongly encourage anyone who is looking for a used scout with an acrylic platter to really take a good look at it.  It sounds much more like real music and for what these used scouts are going for, they are an incredible value.  Maybe its just system/cartridge synergy.  I actually thing the scout with the acrylic platter sounds just as good if not better and quieter than the classic with the aluminum platter.  The scout sounds more like an older Aries than the Classic does.  The advantage of the classic is the longer arm but I mean for many people, I am not sure you can do much better table than the scout with the acrylic platter for anywhere near to what they go for used and I would say they you could look at tables costing much more and still not get the music satisfaction in many ways that the scout accomplishes.  They just seem to portray the musical experience in a way that sounds right.  Aries and scoutmasters with acrylic have to sound killer.  The only platter that is as good that VPI made are there lead and hybrid metal aluminum/acrylic platter tables.  I think VPI is going in the wrong direction with aluminum.  To me the disadvantages far outweigh the benefits.  Others may disagree but if you find scout w/acrylic for a good deal, I would be all over it.  Sometimes you just don't know what ya have so I will probably hang on to mine for a while.
tzh21y

Showing 7 responses by melm

melm
1,085 posts
 
FWIW the original VPI platter was aluminum with a lead insert. When that was replaced on the same turntable with acrylic, also with a lead insert, the review in the (then honest) Absolute Sound said that the original aluminum was clearly awful and that the table really came alive with the acrylic/lead platter. I can personally vouch for the improvement. So acrylic/lead platters became the mainstay of VPI through the early TNT days. The original TNT platter is a great platter and I still use one on my much modified TNT. Lead, by the way, is a perfect substance for that use, not only heavy, but acoustically dead. Try ringing a bell made out of lead!

Eventually, said to be due to environmental concerns, VPI replaced the lead inserts with various metals under the acrylic. Later there were also acrylic platters with no metal. And then the return of the Super Platter: acrylic and steel. Some of the more expensive tables in audio still use an acrylic, or other close plastic material, for the platter.

When VPI went back to aluminum, I was kind of shocked given the history. Back to the future. From all I have been able to gather this was clearly a move simply to lower the cost of production. Apparently high quality acrylic was getting more expensive, and aluminum is cheap and easier to fabricate into platters. As in the original aluminum days, users are scrambling for platter mats of all kinds. And they should.

I have experienced the difference and would never change my platter for the aluminum one.

So bottom line, the OP has a point.
melm
1,085 posts
 
"The best platters that VPI made were the lead ones. They had to stop making them due to the new environmental laws ( no lead) 20 years ago. VPI claims that these were better than all the others!"

I don't think the disappearance of lead from VPI products was due to any law.  Lead is still used in modern production and can be used safely given proper precautions.  It was a decision of VPI, which they stated at the time to be out of environmental concern.  Given their record of cost cutting, I'm not so sure.

" according to my friend, where VPI has made improvements is in their Pivot bearing.  He said it is different than earlier models and is a large improvement."

Which "improvement" do you mean?  Was it something subsequent to the change to the inverted bearing?  By the way, is that generally regarded as an improvement?
melm
1,085 posts
 
" I could foresee legal issues, however."

Nonsense.
melm
1,085 posts
 
lewm,

Sorry I appeared so dismissive.  Not my best moment.

But people sell modifications for other peoples products all the time.  Look as what Modwright does to an Oppo for ex.  Or, as applied to VPI, look what Phoenix Engineering did, clearly out-engineering VPI at its own game.
melm
1,085 posts
 
" VPI has tuned their drive system to specific platter masses and a change to PVC or a composite platter could upset everything."

I have not kept up with the most current offerings, but the original Hurst motor that VPI used (whether 600 or 300 rpm) has been used with their platters from less than 10 pounds to well over 20 pounds with and without VERY heavy flywheel accessories, with and without a 7 pound peripheral weight and heavy center weight and with oils of dramatically different viscosity. Hard to see why it could not drive virtually anything.

Too bad (for a third party platter) that VPI gave up its non-inverted bearing. For then the platter’s center bore was all the way through and not as critical since it fit loosely over the bearing, but held tight by a small O-ring.

As I hinted above I personally think the old bearing is superior as it permits a constant oil bath, and is far easier to work on if needed or desired. I believe the newer inverted bearing is cheaper for them to produce.
melm
1,085 posts
 
"The new aluminum plate uses the non inverted bearing."  This appears to be true on the newer, less expensive, TTs with the thinner platters.  "Platter rotates on an oil bath bearing"   Likely too thin to house the inverted bearing.  IIRC it's also true of the lower bearing in the very expensive magnetic drive platter, likely for the same reason.
melm
1,085 posts
 
"For whatever it may be worth, I remember distinctly while deep in VPI upgrade madness years ago that HW felt very strongly that the very best platter for the HW19 was the aluminum platter. . . . I was always left with the impression that it was the improvement in speed stability due to the heavier platters’ greater rotational inertia that made the most significant improvement regardless of material used."

HW, who has always been VPI’s marketeer-in-chief has said many things in favor of the aluminum platter as that is the platter VPI sells now. However he is on the public record as writing that the acrylic-lead platter is preferable (given good materials) and that the aluminum platter is "a very, very good alternative." You also have to ask why, if aluminum was better, he went to the more expensive acrylic in the first place and why the acrylic was clearly more favorably reviewed. Two platters of virtually the same weight on the same base, and the clear preference was for the acrylic-lead.

As to weight, (and I agree that flywheel matters and VPI also sells flywheels) any of these can be made heavy by way of sandwich with heavier materials, or by making the platter very thick, as VPI and a lot of others have done. It is an issue separate from the material used.
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