Allnic 1201 and Herron VTPH-2

Gmercer, the 64 db version of the Herron is what most people buy, and would be fine with a 0.4 mv or even somewhat lower output cartridge.  And of course its moving magnet input would be fine with a 5 mv cartridge.

Good luck.  Regards,
-- Al

The web states that my integrated is 100k ohms .That looks good for the Herron . How about the Allnic ? At 1.2k , that is quite a jump .

Great on both counts! And in fact I doubt that any reasonably well designed phono stage would have a problem driving 100K.

Also, as a point of information, if I am correct in believing that the output stage of the Allnic is transformer coupled, per my earlier comment it would probably be able to handle lowish load impedances (e.g., 15 to 25K or so) better than the Herron, even though the Allnic’s specified output impedance (1.2K) is higher than the Herron’s (400 ohms). That is because what matters when output impedance is high enough to be a significant fraction of load impedance is how much **variation** in the output impedance occurs across the frequency range. And generally a transformer coupled output stage will have relatively little variation as a function of frequency. While capacitively coupled output stages (such as I presume the Herron uses) will often have substantial rises in output impedance at deep bass frequencies, to well above their specified nominal values. (The impedance of a capacitor rises as frequency decreases).  That is presumably why Keith Herron recommends a load impedance of at least 30K and preferably 50K or more, as I stated earlier.

On the other hand, though, if output impedance is particularly high at high frequencies (high frequency output impedance usually being fairly similar to the specified nominal output impedance) its interaction with cable capacitance can potentially have adverse effects in the upper treble region, if the combination of the length of the cable and the capacitance per unit length of the particular cable type results in high overall capacitance. That can occur even if there is no variation in output impedance as a function of frequency. But that situation arises much less frequently than the effects that can arise in the bass region as a result of the interaction of the low frequency impedance rise of a capacitively coupled tube output stage with a heavy (numerically low) load impedance. And an output impedance of 1.2K is low enough to avoid any such effects on the treble unless the cable length is much longer than would normally be used in a home setup.

Good luck. Regards,
-- Al

Member Waltersalas (Chris) has owned both, formerly the Herron and presently the Allnic. The change occurred during the course of some unrelated major system changes, and was not due to any dissatisfaction with the Herron. His system description threads include the following comments:

Re the Herron: "Just a fantastic phono stage."

Re the Allnic: "Right there with the Herron VTPH-2 as one of the great-sounding values in phono preamps. Very musical, very quiet."

I am a VERY happy owner of the Herron, but I have not heard the Allnic. I presently use it with an Audio Technica AT-ART9 low output moving coil cartridge, and I initially used it with a Soundsmith re-tipped Grace F-9E Ruby moving magnet.

Regarding the comment by Chris about the Allnic being "very quiet," I would have to say that I am continually amazed at how **totally** silent the Herron is in my system, even in LOMC mode when listened to with my Stax Lambda Pro electrostatic headphones firing directly into my ears with the volume control at max!

Also, as has been widely reported, Keith Herron is an absolute treasure to deal with.

Some additional considerations:

The manual for the VTPH-2 states that for optimal performance the input impedance of the line stage it drives should ideally be 50K or more. Apparently the 400 ohm nominal output impedance of the 64 db version of the VTPH-2 (which is more frequently chosen than the 69 db version that is also offered, which in turn has a 500 ohm nominal output impedance) rises significantly at low frequencies, presumably as a result of its output coupling capacitor. However I recall that in a post here some time ago a member quoted Mr. Herron as saying that 30K should be high enough.

Regarding the Allnic’s output impedance, I’m not certain but I believe its output is transformer coupled, which would mean that its specified output impedance of 1.2K is probably fairly constant over the frequency range. Therefore it may have a bit of an advantage vs. the Herron when driving low impedances.

On the other hand, the Herron provides **much** greater flexibility with respect to loading of LOMC cartridges. Its FET-based LOMC input stage has an intrinsic input impedance that is essentially infinite, so the load impedance presented to the cartridge can be set to any desired value by inserting loading plugs having resistors of the desired value into RCA jacks that are provided on the rear panel for that purpose. Mr. Herron can supply nicely done loading plugs in any desired value. In contrast, cartridge loading provided by the Allnic is fixed at one of four possible values, depending on which of its four possible gain settings is selected, with the four loading choices all being within the range of approximately 30 and 280 ohms. And since it can be expected that for a given LOMC cartridge one specific gain choice will often prove to provide better results than the other three, it could reasonably be argued that as a practical matter the Allnic provides only one loading choice for a given cartridge.

Good luck. Regards,
-- Al