gmorris
Where did you get the info on the LS26?
Where did you get the info on the LS26?
Aesthetix Calypso vs ARC LS25 MK2
Looking for insight from folk's who have compared these two pre's either head to head
in the same system (preferably) or experience with both in different systems.
I'm not looking at any other pre's at this time,
so please don't muddy up the thread with other pre's I should consider.
Thanks in advance...
99 responses Add your response
"I have never known such sheer madness," Dishwalla. I was not a happy camper up until Saturday evening with the Calypso. I generally leave my system on all day on Saturday's and Sunday's, so it's nice and toasty when I sit down to listen at night. Upon arriving home late Saturday from a night on the town with my gal, it was immediately obvious that the Calypso had blossomed from a cocoon to a butterfly and the music was just flowing effortlessly. I was very apprehensive about selling my LS25 (which sold in four hours Friday), because I felt that the Calypso was just marginally better, and not in all areas. I'll even go a step further and say that I was longing to put my LS25 back in and dump the Calypso, but I wanted to give it a chance. What a difference a few hours makes! I've said this repeatedly regarding my JC1's which took an obscene amount of time (approx. 1500 hours) to break-in, people dump gear before it's ever broken in and never really know what it sounds like. Had I turned tail and ran prior to Saturday, I would never have known the sheer bliss I am now experiencing. I have NEVER heard a system this good in my life. I know that's a bold statement, but I have not had the opportunity to hear all that many TRULY high-end setup's as some of you have, nor do I have the experience of many of my fellow Agoner's. I had been tube rolling between Brimar, Tungsram, and GE longplate 12ax7's. I know many of you will think I'm crazy, but I liked the Tungsram's the least. But there's a big BUT here. All the tube rolling I did was a moot point up until Saturday. The GE's were installed when the pre finally opened up, and I LOVE them. But now I need to revisit the tube issue and am going to ask my dealer for an extension on the tube sets that he loaned me. I need to also mention that I put a Supra LoRad pc on my cdp (was using a stock 12awg pc that came with the JC1's) Sunday, wow! I am so hard headed sometimes. I fought this pc issue for quite a long time before I did anything about it with regards to my pre and amps. This is a fantastic pc, especially for the money. I did try one on the pre before it opened up, but again, moot point. A bud lent me three of them, but I have not experimented with the others, yet. Back to the pre, but I don't know where to start. I hate throwing around esoteric audiophile terms, but I guess I'll have to. Or, perhaps I should just write a review in a couple of weeks. Otherwise this is going to get really long here. Oh hell, just a few...Air, sparkle, space, expansive soundstage, detailed, smooth, tight, taut, musical, PRaT. It's all there and it's all good. And when the non-audiophile girlfriend sits up and takes notice and actually starts getting into it, you know it's going in the right direction. So the LS25 is but a distant memory, a good pre in it's time perhaps, but it is not on the same level as the mighty Calypso. I welcome your response... |
Ahhhhhhh! Joe, this is such good news. I am almost as glad as you are that you stuck it out. When I so highly recommend a piece of gear, it always leaves me with butterflies until it all works out. Just think how home life is for the few who are fortunate enough to own the Callisto and Io Signatures, wow. It's tough sometimes when the music and the synergy in you system is all a kilter. A lot of wild accusations are made on the AÂ’gon and some times it is also difficult to cipher out what it all means and how much of it is real. But when someone hears the music as your (not so audiophile) gal, I agree that pretty well sums it up. I really canÂ’t believe more people donÂ’t find their way to Aesthetix but, they will. One at a time. Jim White is a rare gentleman with an even rarer ability. I could not be happier for you and for myself having chosen Aesthetix above all others. Again, I also own the Rhea phono amp (sister) to the Calypso and can share the same accolades for JimsÂ’ work on this piece that I do for all the others. This gear is truly remarkable IMHO. We will look forward to a more comprehensive review in the weeks to come and I am interested in how the power cord trials and tube rolls will ferret out as I have not yet been that thorough. My pair pretty much blew our minds right from the get go and I didnÂ’t experience the tube noise that quite a few have been plagued with. Thank my lucky stars. And just to note that I was comparing them against his high end Signature series in a good friends' home. Well, hereÂ’s to listening to the music. Cheers! |
Husk: Keep in mind I don't own the Calypso but rather the Callisto Sig and Io. Check my thread from a few months ago on the tubes I tried with the Callisto here. It's anybody's guess if what worked so well with the Jupiter models will do the same for the Saturn. John |
My dealer was nice enough to let me hang onto the tubes till next Monday, so I will try to do a comprehensive tube roll this weekend. I know the Supra LoRad pc worked wonders on my cdp, and again, I have two more to play around with. I'm going to leave the one on the cdp and try a couple of different combo's. Pre & cdp, monoblocks & cdp, and will report my findings for anyone interested. ARGHHH, I hate swapping stuff in and out, it's too much like work. But when you have access to stuff for free, you gotta try it, right? |
Well, do to some personal issues in my life I didn't get to spend as much time A-B'ing as I would have liked. And then there's the powering up/down, warming back up, etc. What a pain in the ass. Is it a fair comparison to pull tubes that have been on for a few hours and pop in cold tubes for a listen? Do the tubes need to be on for 20, 30, 60 minutes before they "settle?" Or are they good to go right away as long as the pre is still warm? I'll say it again, what a pain in the ass. But, I did make some headway. I finally settled on the Tungsram 12ax7's, with the GE Longplates (ca.1963) a close second. I quickly ruled out the Brimar's which are smooth and laid back, but I listen mostly to rock and they are a little shy in the bass area IMO. I felt the GE's were decent in the bass, but the soundstage wasn't as wide and open as with the Tung's. Also, one of the GE's would "pop" on occasion, but were overall quiet. But tube noise is no longer an issue with this unit, nice and quiet thank you. I am also ordering two Supra Lorad pc's, one for cdp and one for pre. These are excellent pc's for the money IMO. Very detailed and open sounding. I was only able to briefly put Lorad's on my monoblocks, hence, I really couldn't "make the call." Thanks to all for the "sound advice" over the last few weeks. |
Yes Perfectionist, Tubes take a little time to settle in. For my Aesthetix Calypso and Rhea maybe as little as a half hour with some music playing at low volumes. Digital has its place! But I notice a decided richness and fullness several hours of listening in (3 to 4). It seems like the more the better but I would swear on the same thing about my former solid-state gear as well. It would start out a little pale and brittle in the morning and then by that evening... WOW! it would have more soul than brother Ray (Charles). Well, almost anyway. IMHO there isn't a single piece of gear out there that sounds great when it's cold. Cheers! |
Perfectionist, now that you have decided on the pre, tubes, and cords - I recommend getting Herbie's tube dampers. For the price, they make a very nice and immediate improvement on the Calypso as well as many other pre's. I first tried some standard silicone o-rings from NAPA, and the Herbie's are better. |
Tgun5, I've heard tube dampeners can sometimes make the soundstage more closed in. What say you? More fun... Well, this pre completely went in the shitter since I reported on 8/29. Dare I say, almost unlistenable. I'd be better off with a Bose Waveradio at this point. I wouldn't force my worst enemy to sit and listen to it! (LOL) And this is over a couple of listening sessions. There is no doubt that the pre is the culprit, as nothing else has changed in my system, and all other pieces in the chain are fully broken in. This is most frustrating, so much so that if I had another pre on hand, I'd pull the Calypso out of my system. But I don't have another pre, so I have no choice but to ride this out. My JC1's went through severe "mood swings" over the 1500 hour break-in period, which I painstakingly logged all hours so I knew what was what. So I can only assume that this pre is still going thru "changes." So, as of last night I'm leaving it on 24/7 with a signal running through it. I have no clue how many hours are on the Calypso, as I've logged none. Just reporting what I'm hearing... |
The advantages to the tube dampers are immediately noticable and include better inner detail. I did not notice any negative effect, and if there was, it was much smaller than the improvement. Nice thing is - they don't need a break-in HEHE. (and they are inexpensive) As far as your Calypso going through changes, let it burn! When I did the tube changes, it took a good three weeks (and a lot of hours) to settle down. During that time, it went from glorious to terrible within hours. It will end, patience is the key here. |
Well, this is all very interesting indeed... It was a rough weekend of not enjoying my music until Sunday. My initial impressions of the Tungsram tubes (8/29 post) was right on. There must be something wrong with these tubes, 'cause they sound like shit. Good inner detail and nice mids and highs, but the bass is not right at all. Not just a lack of bass, but there's something awry with it, it's hard to put it in words. They are also UNINVOLVING and UNMUSICAL IMO, two things I can't do. And I've racked up more than enough hours on them so that is not an issue. I put the stock Tesla's in yesterday morning, which only had about 10 hours on them, and the sound yesterday was FANTASTIC. Not as much inner detail and air as the Tung's and GE's though, this I did notice. I should have went with my gut and kept the GE's. But one would occasionally pop, and everything I've read on Agon praises the Tung's. Now there are some extenuating circumstances here... 1) As I've said before, all the tube rolls I did up to the point where the pre opened up were pretty much a moot point. 2) The nirvana that my girlfriend and I experienced the weekend that the pre let loose was with the GE's installed. 3) I did my last tube roll on labor day during a time when the pre went in the shitter cause it's still going through it's "changes." It sounded horrible this day, and I tried to make a final determination on tubes at that time. Not the ideal conditions obviously. Now that the pre is sounding good again (and I hope it stays that way now), well like I said, the Tesla's are mucho better than the Tung's, and with less hours. And I don't think it's a system synergy thing, as my first impressions of this tube were that they didn't sound "right." And I'm sure there is something not right with these Tung's as many audiophiles with far more experience than myself say it's a good tube. I just hope Kevin at Upscale will understand and take them back and send me out either a different set of Tung's or a set of GE's as I've already returned the GE's and Brimars. But my gut is telling me to go with the GE's. So in conclusion...Sounding very nice indeed with the stock (and quiet) Tesla's (right now), but lacking some inner detail and air of the GE's and Tung's. |
As of today this thread has had 3360 views, so I thought I should give an update. I had put two Supra Lorad pc's into my system, one on pre and one on cdp, I have since pulled them out and put my H-T pro ac-11 back on the pre and a stock JC1 pc on the cdp. The Supra's provided more detail, but my system "hits" much harder with the other pc's mentioned above. The GE longplates are wonderful rock 'n roll tubes, 'nuff said on that. This pre is very sensitive to iso devices. My friend was nice enough to sell me his two pairs of Aurios Pro's, which are under pre and cdp. I ordered a set(3) of 5/8" Tungsten Carbide balls (Hoover Precision)(per Tgun5's suggestion) to try under the pre as a test. At $15 each, what the hell. Nice, very nice. More detail and even more headroom. I like 'em so much I'm ordering a set for the cdp this week. So the sound finally started to settle in now that I haven't messed with anything for awhile. But there was one more thing to do... Speaker placement, speaker placement, speaker placement... Yes, I know it's important, but I'll go as far as to say it's tantamount, at least with my gear (specifically speakers). This pre throws a much larger/wider soundstage than the LS25 and speaker placement turned out to be a critical factor here. I just finally got them dialed-in yesterday and re-spiked them. My system is sounding amazing, and on a consistant basis. I now have no reservations of moving on from the LS25 to the Calypso and am no longer looking back...:-) |
I'm not sure how many people have your patience Perfectionist, but I'm glad to here you've gotten there. The speaker issue is one many of us forget to re-address when a new component comes into our systems. For me 1/16th of an inch can be huge sonically, so thank you for reminding all of us about that. Your experience with the Aurios Pro match my experience. I have tried so many combinations with the Pro's that I know for a fact that everything you try will change the sound, and it is trial and error to find the right combination. I use Orchard Bay titanium cones (no longer made) on my Aurios Pros. I would recommend trying everything you can get your hands on, the isolation can be bigger than tubes and cabling. At least that's my ten cents. Thanks for the update! JD |
Perfectionist, It is very satisfying to hear that your system is settling and your satisfaction gaining. I hope this is it. WoW, what a long strange trip this has been. Thanks you for taking us along for the ride with you. Your experiences give others alot to glean from. Who would have thought of speaker set up playing a significant roll? Not I but, it deserves another look at on my set up. Happy listening! |
R_f_sayles, Like JD said, 1/16" of an inch or millimeters, it's that crucial, especially on toe-in/out. Forgot to mention, I had received my Nueance platform that I ordered some time ago during all this. It was sized to my Naim cdp, but it wasn't right for my system. The image was fuzzy and not clearly defined, bass was not as tight, and the pace seemed slower. I did a hardcore A/B between the Aurios Pro's and the Nueance. The pro's proved to be superior in my system. I am not dissing the Nueance, but again, it just wasn't right for my system. Ordered three more 5/8" tungsten carbide balls from Hoover Precision to use on top of the Aurios Pro's under cdp... |
I also have an ARC LS 25 MKl pre-amp. I just made a deal to purchase "sound unheard" a Calypso. I did so because of a few things. Number one: the fine review by JadeM6 and Perfectionist and many others!! I also have an Aesthetix Rhea which I happen to love. I suspect the mating of the two would work well. I have not received it yet but should be here in a week or two. The original owner (the unit is one year old) has the original tubes and also some Siemens and dynaco tubes. I will listen to both and report back to you all on my findings!! P.S. My hunt for an new TT and arm still continues....also!! |
Thank you Gmorris . Not too many specifics for the LS26 on the ARCDB site yet. There is confirmation that the design is derived and scaled down from Ref 3. There are only 2 6H30 dual triods: this probably means that the PS may be solid state. The display of the LS26 is smaller than the Ref 3 but otherwise functionally similar. Same two temporary contact rotary dials for volume and function selector. Six soft-buttons instead of the four found on Ref 3. If I recall correctly, LS26 is a fully balanced design running in class A with 0 feedback. The blurb suggest the sound/staging/imaging is closely related to Ref 3 but on a smaller scale. Price is $5995 or thereabouts. |
recently picked a arc ls-25mk2.... and it is anything but booooorrrrriiinnnngggg (yawn)...... it is Extremely neutral, dynamic (hugh!!), and transparent. the 6h30 is a really neutral tube (you will love it or hate it) you can buy them at a fair cost vs nos 6922's... as usual the unit benefits from a proper power cord, tube dampers, and isolation.. |
Have a gain stage (12ax7) tube (GE Longplate ca. 1963) getting a little noisy. So ordered these... 12AX7 Mullard MATCHED PAIR New Old Stock in whiteboxes. Late 1960s vintage, Genuine Mullard "B" factory code (Blackburn) made in Great Britain, labeled for IEC Mullard and other brands of amplifiers. These have that sweet Mullard sound at a lower price! Very closely matched and selected pair of beauties! and these... E88CC / 6922 Amperex white PQ type, white label, HOLLAND made, gold pins. MATCHED PAIRS New Old Stock white Box. Fabulous original 1960s vintage white label HOLLAND made PQ type Amperex tubes. These are among the most difficult to find in the 6DJ8 NOS family. Ultra low noise, matched triode sections, heavily plated gold pins. Carefully matched to within 2 percent. Made and labeled for Mullard, last pair! I don't have a lot of tube rolling experience, just what's mentioned above and just a smidge of 6922 rolling in ARC LS25 MK1. Also, I've never rolled the stock E-H 6922's in the Calypso. I feel I'm at a point in my audio lifecycle where I'm ready to experiment in the black art of "tube rolling." Will report my findings in the coming weeks... |
Hey all, I just got my Calypso (used on Audiongon) just last week. Hey Perfectionist, I also have the ARC LS25 mk1. The Calypso WITH my Rhea is a better match then with my Ls25. I need more time to listen, however. Also, I may have a slight noise problem with either a tube OR one of my ASL Hurricane power amps. I will also report back. P.S. My Audiogon person I bought from has been very supportive. |
Lots and lots of Jazz (Miles, Coltrane, Ellis Marsalis, Sony Rollins...etc.), fusion Jazz, R&B/Soul (Frankie Beverly), and of course the older R&B (Marvin Gaye, Ray Charles, Isley Brothers...etc.). My personal feeling for music, is that it is much like wine. I listen to what I like vs. what people say sounds good. And just like my wine, I have musical preferences, but can listen to, and enjoy it all. |
Markeef, glad you found this thread useful. Many of the decisions I've made regarding my system have come from knowledge gained from the forums here on Agon. I see I never did update this thread after I installed the Mullard 12ax7's and Amperex 6922's. I'm still running both sets and they are wonderful. I've had no desire to try any others. One of the 12ax7's has developed a hiss quite a bit more then the other. It varies throughout the volume range. That is, I can be at say volume# 47 with cdp stopped, and the culprit tube may have audible hiss from the listening position. I can usually run the volume up or down and come back to #47, and the hiss will be greatly diminished. Why this is, I don't know. I do know it is not bad enough to make me want to replace them. I will also say that I've had no desire to try any other pre's in my system. Very content... |
I am very late to this thread, I know. However, I thought I would chime in with my Aesthetix Calypso vs ARC LS25mkII experience. I owned both. The Calypso is a warmer and more robust sounding line stage while the ARC sounds neutral to too lean and clean in my system. I had the ARC LS25mkII for a couple years and then began my search for something about as flexible and versatile but more to my liking. The only thing I could find that came close in terms of "flexible and versatile" AND sounded a bit more "tubey" (which is what I wanted) was the Aesthetix Calypso. I liked the Calypso so much that I later upgraded to the Calypso Signature. End of story. |
I've owned the standard Calypso, but sold it along with my tube amp thinking I'd enjoy the simplicity of an integrated amp... turned out to be a mistake that was regrettable. Now I'm back to separates and stepped up to the Calypso Signature. Both preamps are great values IME, with the Signature providing additional resolution, transparency and a larger soundstage. Swapping out the stock tubes with carefully selected NOS tubes is a must in both units. |
Depends what you consider inexpensive. I'd say you'll need to spend a minimum of $400 to $500 to do it right. Don't try to skimp on tubes or buy from a dealer without a solid reputation or you may regret it. You'll need two closely matched 12AX7's & two matched 6922's. I have a variety of tubes that I have used with my Calypso's. For the 12ax7 tubes, I prefer Mullard CV4004 Platinums (available from Upscale Audio) or Telefunken 12ax7 smooth or ribbed plates. For the 6922's, i like "white" label Amperex or Phillips SQ's. In addition to Upscale Audio (good prices, but kind of snooty), I like Brent Jessee's tubes and also Vintage Tube Services (be prepared to wait 3 weeks to get your tubes if you buy from Vintage Tube Services). All of these suppliers can be found via Google and they are reputable. |
Calypso has been a recent addition in my system and I've embarked on a little tube rolling. I've tried JJ Tesla 12ax7, cryo treated NOS Jan Phillips 5751 & Sylvania triple mica black plate 5751. The JPs offered greater air and clarity and the Sylvania same again with a touch more natural warmth. The later were bought at a reasonable price s/h from a guy I'd come across. They were noisier than expected given thier rep for low noise and went pop within 20hrs of use, leason learned. Will be on the look out shortly for NOS Sylvania. It was the 6922 that surprised me. From what I'd read rolling these makes less of an impression. My unit came with Sovteks. I changed them out for late 60s UK Mullard ecc88. Big difference, fuller sounding with greater weight and impact. Very pleased with them. Pdreher, I've read that the signature has less of an issue with the tube noise. Whats your impression? |
Defride - I have not had issues with tube noise from either the stock Calypso or the Signature version. I think the original stock version of the Calypso had some issues that were purely tube related, but that was overhyped. I've never had a problem with either of the two Calypso's I've owned. Great preamps and a great company to deal with. |