Audioperv, I don't get it. Please explain further... |
Well it looks like another thread run amuck with ARC bashers, what is with you people?
I'm on my second ARC pre, the first was the SP16L, and my current is the LS25 MK1
(XLR to amps=critical). These pre's are anything but dull, boring, slow, thick or syrupy. ARC's been making pre's for a long time and there are alot of them out there, so they must be doing something right. I'm sorry, but I have a great deal of respect for ARC and just don't understand the negative comments. I'll get off my soapbox now.
I think I've assembled a very nice system and have no desire to change any component with the possible exception of the pre. I listen mostly to rock, some jazz/fusion and female vocalist. I like a touch of warmth, hence the tubed pre. But I also love good dynamics and bass slam for rock and feel the MK1 is pretty darn good at it, but could possibly be somewhat better. I've done my homework and read till I can read no more, and for me it boils down to three pre's ARC LS25 MK1 & MK2 and the Calypso. I've had two tube guys tell me I should go from the MK1 to the MK2, that there is no comparison between the two, and that the MK2 is NOT SS sounding.
And then there's the raving reviews of the Calypso that cannot be ignored. Also, much positive press here on Agon with the exception of some early "tube noise" issues that seem to have been resolved. All three of these pre's are at the same pricepoint, so this is not an issue.
Magnepanmike, can you give a little more insight as to why you feel the MK2 is SS sounding? An example of the system/music and time spent with it perhaps?
Guidocorona, I agree with most of your comments regarding ARC.
But please tell me why you hate the MK2 so much? |
Thanks for all the kind words from all you folks (not folk's).
At least I've got the balls to list my system for all to see and not keep it under wraps like some military secret. I find it difficult to take serious advice from people who won't list their system so I can have a look and see if I think they're full of it or perhaps they now their stuff. |
Guidocorona & Magnepanmike,
Thanks for keepin' it real, and civil.
Both of your detailed descriptions are most insightful, helpful and appreciated.
Comments from others still welcome...
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Jafox wrote-
A return back to the Calypso and that awesome openness is significantly diminshed. This is one area where I would have trouble going for the Calypso.
I can't say I blame you, going from a Callisto to a Calypso would be taking a step backward. It sounds as if you don't care for the Calypso, or have I misinterpreted what you've written???
Also, is it really fair to compare the two given the difference in price?
Please expalin further if you will... |
I truely appreciate the folks (not folk's) who have taken the time to articulate their impressions and opinions regarding this thread.
Trying either a Calypso or LS25 MK2 in my system is not really an option for me.
So after extensive research I have taken the plunge and ordered a new Calypso,
it is due to arrive at my home Tuesday, August 9th.
I will report my findings here for all who are interested.
Although I may wait a few days until the unit has some hours on it and I can spend some "quality time" with it over next weekend.
Again, thanks to all who have contributed...
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Hello all,
My apologies for not updating sooner, but the reason I have not updated to this point is because the unit had an unacceptable amount of tube noise with the stock Tesla 12ax7's
when I received it, one channel being louder than the other and audible from the sweetspot (13ft from speaks). You can imagine my dissapointment as I was under the impression that these tube issues were no longer a problem with this unit. I did listen to quite a bit of music over last weekend and was pretty impressed, but a fair assessment at this time would be unfair. I am still waiting on warranty replacement tubes which I should receive today. I also have in my possession GE Longplates, Brimar CV4004 and Tungsram 12ax7's on loan from my dealer to play with. I have briefly tried all three of these tube sets and they are all much quieter than the stock Tesla's, probably by 50-75%(whew!). But I feel it would be premature to comment on the pre or any of the tube sets at this time as I just haven't been able to spend any quality time with it. The one thing I will say is that it is an extremely beautiful piece of equipment and the build quality is second to none.
I will have my way with it this weekend and update on Sunday or Monday. |
It's been about two weeks since the Calypso has been in my system, and IMO, it's a very close race between these two pre's. I'm sure some of you will think I'm nuts, but in my system and room, and to these ears, it's close. The Calypso does do many things better than the LS25, but not everything. Unfortunately, I have not had the opportunity to do a tube shootout. I did receive the Tesla warranty replacement tubes, one of which was noisy. But I was able to make a quiet pair between the original Tesla's and the warranty replacements. I ran all this past weekend with the Brimars installed. I'm not the greatest at throwing around esoteric audiophile terms, but I'll try to describe what I'm hearing. The Calypso definetly accels in the area of vocals, especially female vocals, which have never sounded so lush and realistic in my system. And I would say the Calypso wins in the area of soundstaging and imaging. Also, I'm able to hear small details in the music much better, micro and macro? I havent decided if it's smoother or any easier on the ears just yet. The one area I feel the LS25 is beating it in is bass, believe it or not. It's not so much a lack of bass, but it's different, and I can't quite put my finger on it. But in all fairness, my LS25 has who knows how many hours on it, compared to maybe 150 hours for the Calypso. Perhaps this is playing a part? Also, I havent spent any serious time with the other tube sets. I also have not tried any iso devices under this pre, although I run my LS25 on it's stock footers. The only iso device I have are Daruma III's under my cdp (I'm waiting on a Nueance platform for cdp). A buddy is going to let me try his Aurios Pro's under the pre. I'm using a 3' Harmonic Tech Pro AC-11 pc, and I'm wondering if the Calypso may benefit from a different pc. And I have not attempted to reposition my speaks at this time (although, this has proved futile in the past). I guess what I'm saying is that I'm on the fence with this as they are both great pre's, IMO. In fact, it's so close that this is gonna take me weeks to nail down and I'm not ready to part with the LS25 at this point.
I may even have to pull the stupid TV off the top shelf of my rack and do a pre shootout.
I wanna like the Calypso more than the LS25, it's a thing of beauty, love the numeric volume readout, display dimmer/off, standby mode, and it's easy to service, i.e., change tubes.
I'd really like to hear commentary and/or suggestions from other Calypso owners...
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Tgun5, thanks for your input, very interesting, and I'd like to ask you some questions...
1) Was the LS25 MK1 or MK2? The thread title says MK2, but I own a Mk1.
2) Did you find there was a lengthy break-in period & approximately how long?
3) I have Tungsram 12ax7's here that I will be test driving this weekend.
I was under the impression that only the 12ax7's were the important tubes.
Are the 6922's also critical in your opinion? |
Jafox, I think Jadem6s' review of the Calypso says it all.
Tgun5, thanks once again for your insightful and helpful input.
I have gained much knowledge by way of others trials and tribulations.
I hope to have at my disposal this weekend a set of Aurios Pro's and a Supra pc to play with. |
"I have never known such sheer madness," Dishwalla.
I was not a happy camper up until Saturday evening with the Calypso. I generally leave my system on all day on Saturday's and Sunday's, so it's nice and toasty when I sit down to listen at night. Upon arriving home late Saturday from a night on the town with my gal, it was immediately obvious that the Calypso had blossomed from a cocoon to a butterfly and the music was just flowing effortlessly.
I was very apprehensive about selling my LS25 (which sold in four hours Friday), because I felt that the Calypso was just marginally better, and not in all areas. I'll even go a step further and say that I was longing to put my LS25 back in and dump the Calypso, but I wanted to give it a chance. What a difference a few hours makes! I've said this repeatedly regarding my JC1's which took an obscene amount of time (approx. 1500 hours) to break-in, people dump gear before it's ever broken in and never really know what it sounds like. Had I turned tail and ran prior to Saturday, I would never have known the sheer bliss I am now experiencing.
I have NEVER heard a system this good in my life. I know that's a bold statement, but I have not had the opportunity to hear all that many TRULY high-end setup's as some of you have, nor do I have the experience of many of my fellow Agoner's.
I had been tube rolling between Brimar, Tungsram, and GE longplate 12ax7's.
I know many of you will think I'm crazy, but I liked the Tungsram's the least.
But there's a big BUT here.
All the tube rolling I did was a moot point up until Saturday. The GE's were installed when the pre finally opened up, and I LOVE them. But now I need to revisit the tube issue and am going to ask my dealer for an extension on the tube sets that he loaned me. I need to also mention that I put a Supra LoRad pc on my cdp (was using a stock 12awg pc that came with the JC1's) Sunday, wow! I am so hard headed sometimes. I fought this pc issue for quite a long time before I did anything about it with regards to my pre and amps. This is a fantastic pc, especially for the money. I did try one on the pre before it opened up, but again, moot point. A bud lent me three of them, but I have not experimented with the others, yet. Back to the pre, but I don't know where to start. I hate throwing around esoteric audiophile terms, but I guess I'll have to. Or, perhaps I should just write a review in a couple of weeks. Otherwise this is going to get really long here.
Oh hell, just a few...Air, sparkle, space, expansive soundstage, detailed, smooth, tight, taut, musical, PRaT. It's all there and it's all good. And when the non-audiophile girlfriend sits up and takes notice and actually starts getting into it, you know it's going in the right direction.
So the LS25 is but a distant memory, a good pre in it's time perhaps, but it is not on the same level as the mighty Calypso.
I welcome your response...
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My dealer was nice enough to let me hang onto the tubes till next Monday, so I will try to do a comprehensive tube roll this weekend. I know the Supra LoRad pc worked wonders on my cdp, and again, I have two more to play around with. I'm going to leave the one on the cdp and try a couple of different combo's. Pre & cdp, monoblocks & cdp, and will report my findings for anyone interested.
ARGHHH, I hate swapping stuff in and out, it's too much like work.
But when you have access to stuff for free, you gotta try it, right? |
Husk01, the tubes are listed above, but here they are again.
Tungsram, Brimar, GE longplate, all 12ax7's from Upscale Audio. They are all very quiet except one of the GE's pops every once in awhile, but it's really not that bad. |
Well, do to some personal issues in my life I didn't get to spend as much time A-B'ing as I would have liked. And then there's the powering up/down, warming back up, etc. What a pain in the ass. Is it a fair comparison to pull tubes that have been on for a few hours and pop in cold tubes for a listen? Do the tubes need to be on for 20, 30, 60 minutes before they "settle?" Or are they good to go right away as long as the pre is still warm? I'll say it again, what a pain in the ass. But, I did make some headway. I finally settled on the Tungsram 12ax7's, with the GE Longplates (ca.1963) a close second. I quickly ruled out the Brimar's which are smooth and laid back, but I listen mostly to rock and they are a little shy in the bass area IMO. I felt the GE's were decent in the bass, but the soundstage wasn't as wide and open as with the Tung's. Also, one of the GE's would "pop" on occasion, but were overall quiet. But tube noise is no longer an issue with this unit, nice and quiet thank you. I am also ordering two Supra Lorad pc's, one for cdp and one for pre. These are excellent pc's for the money IMO. Very detailed and open sounding. I was only able to briefly put Lorad's on my monoblocks, hence, I really couldn't "make the call."
Thanks to all for the "sound advice" over the last few weeks.
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Tgun5, I've heard tube dampeners can sometimes make the soundstage more closed in.
What say you?
More fun...
Well, this pre completely went in the shitter since I reported on 8/29.
Dare I say, almost unlistenable. I'd be better off with a Bose Waveradio at this point.
I wouldn't force my worst enemy to sit and listen to it! (LOL)
And this is over a couple of listening sessions. There is no doubt that the pre is the culprit,
as nothing else has changed in my system, and all other pieces in the chain are fully broken in.
This is most frustrating, so much so that if I had another pre on hand, I'd pull the Calypso out of my system. But I don't have another pre, so I have no choice but to ride this out.
My JC1's went through severe "mood swings" over the 1500 hour break-in period, which I painstakingly logged all hours so I knew what was what. So I can only assume that this pre is still going thru "changes." So, as of last night I'm leaving it on 24/7 with a signal running through it.
I have no clue how many hours are on the Calypso, as I've logged none.
Just reporting what I'm hearing...
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Thanks for the support guys (and the laughs).
I'll keep you posted. |
Well, this is all very interesting indeed...
It was a rough weekend of not enjoying my music until Sunday. My initial impressions of the Tungsram tubes (8/29 post) was right on. There must be something wrong with these tubes, 'cause they sound like shit. Good inner detail and nice mids and highs, but the bass is not right at all. Not just a lack of bass, but there's something awry with it, it's hard to put it in words. They are also UNINVOLVING and UNMUSICAL IMO, two things I can't do. And I've racked up more than enough hours on them so that is not an issue. I put the stock Tesla's in yesterday morning, which only had about 10 hours on them, and the sound yesterday was FANTASTIC. Not as much inner detail and air as the Tung's and GE's though, this I did notice. I should have went with my gut and kept the GE's. But one would occasionally pop, and everything I've read on Agon praises the Tung's.
Now there are some extenuating circumstances here...
1) As I've said before, all the tube rolls I did up to the point where the pre opened up were pretty much a moot point.
2) The nirvana that my girlfriend and I experienced the weekend that the pre let loose was with the GE's installed.
3) I did my last tube roll on labor day during a time when the pre went in the shitter cause it's still going through it's "changes." It sounded horrible this day, and I tried to make a final determination on tubes at that time. Not the ideal conditions obviously.
Now that the pre is sounding good again (and I hope it stays that way now), well like I said, the Tesla's are mucho better than the Tung's, and with less hours.
And I don't think it's a system synergy thing, as my first impressions of this tube were that they didn't sound "right."
And I'm sure there is something not right with these Tung's as many audiophiles with far more experience than myself say it's a good tube.
I just hope Kevin at Upscale will understand and take them back and send me out either a different set of Tung's or a set of GE's as I've already returned the GE's and Brimars.
But my gut is telling me to go with the GE's.
So in conclusion...Sounding very nice indeed with the stock (and quiet) Tesla's (right now),
but lacking some inner detail and air of the GE's and Tung's.
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Kevin at Upscale, being the cool dude that he is, has agreed to send me a different pair of GE Longplate 12ax7's (due to the occasional pop from one) to replace the Tungsram's. |
As of today this thread has had 3360 views, so I thought I should give an update.
I had put two Supra Lorad pc's into my system, one on pre and one on cdp, I have since pulled them out and put my H-T pro ac-11 back on the pre and a stock JC1 pc on the cdp. The Supra's provided more detail, but my system "hits" much harder with the other pc's mentioned above. The GE longplates are wonderful rock 'n roll tubes, 'nuff said on that.
This pre is very sensitive to iso devices. My friend was nice enough to sell me his two pairs of Aurios Pro's, which are under pre and cdp. I ordered a set(3) of 5/8" Tungsten Carbide balls (Hoover Precision)(per Tgun5's suggestion) to try under the pre as a test. At $15 each, what the hell. Nice, very nice. More detail and even more headroom. I like 'em so much I'm ordering a set for the cdp this week.
So the sound finally started to settle in now that I haven't messed with anything for awhile.
But there was one more thing to do...
Speaker placement, speaker placement, speaker placement...
Yes, I know it's important, but I'll go as far as to say it's tantamount, at least with my gear (specifically speakers). This pre throws a much larger/wider soundstage than the LS25 and speaker placement turned out to be a critical factor here. I just finally got them dialed-in yesterday and re-spiked them.
My system is sounding amazing, and on a consistant basis. I now have no reservations of moving on from the LS25 to the Calypso and am no longer looking back...:-) |
R_f_sayles,
Like JD said, 1/16" of an inch or millimeters, it's that crucial, especially on toe-in/out.
Forgot to mention, I had received my Nueance platform that I ordered some time ago during all this. It was sized to my Naim cdp, but it wasn't right for my system. The image was fuzzy and not clearly defined, bass was not as tight, and the pace seemed slower. I did a hardcore A/B between the Aurios Pro's and the Nueance. The pro's proved to be superior in my system. I am not dissing the Nueance, but again, it just wasn't right for my system.
Ordered three more 5/8" tungsten carbide balls from Hoover Precision to use on top of the Aurios Pro's under cdp... |
Have a gain stage (12ax7) tube (GE Longplate ca. 1963) getting a little noisy.
So ordered these...
12AX7 Mullard MATCHED PAIR New Old Stock in whiteboxes. Late 1960s vintage, Genuine Mullard "B" factory code (Blackburn) made in Great Britain, labeled for IEC Mullard and other brands of amplifiers. These have that sweet Mullard sound at a lower price! Very closely matched and selected pair of beauties!
and these...
E88CC / 6922 Amperex white PQ type, white label, HOLLAND made, gold pins. MATCHED PAIRS New Old Stock white Box. Fabulous original 1960s vintage white label HOLLAND made PQ type Amperex tubes. These are among the most difficult to find in the 6DJ8 NOS family. Ultra low noise, matched triode sections, heavily plated gold pins. Carefully matched to within 2 percent. Made and labeled for Mullard, last pair!
I don't have a lot of tube rolling experience, just what's mentioned above and just a smidge of 6922 rolling in ARC LS25 MK1. Also, I've never rolled the stock E-H 6922's in the Calypso. I feel I'm at a point in my audio lifecycle where I'm ready to experiment in the black art of "tube rolling."
Will report my findings in the coming weeks... |
Markeef, glad you found this thread useful. Many of the decisions I've made regarding my system have come from knowledge gained from the forums here on Agon.
I see I never did update this thread after I installed the Mullard 12ax7's and Amperex 6922's.
I'm still running both sets and they are wonderful. I've had no desire to try any others. One of the 12ax7's has developed a hiss quite a bit more then the other. It varies throughout the volume range. That is, I can be at say volume# 47 with cdp stopped, and the culprit tube may have audible hiss from the listening position. I can usually run the volume up or down and come back to #47, and the hiss will be greatly diminished. Why this is, I don't know.
I do know it is not bad enough to make me want to replace them.
I will also say that I've had no desire to try any other pre's in my system. Very content... |
I'd love to hear your thoughts on standard Calypso vs Signature... |
