Advice on Speaker upgrade vs System Component Upgrade

Thanks for the great advice @kota1 ​​@ghdprentice - really smart stuff

@kota1 I have looked at room treatment but for my small listening room/office , i don't really play loud at all ~ 80-85 DB, and often late at night, and haven't noticed any overpowering bass so far. I do close the curtains which were bought as they are a little heavier for sound absorption to avoid the window problems. I did read recently that getting some treatment behind the listening position is maybe the most important for preserving imaging & soundstage - I think i could definitely start there and hang some blankets and see if its a big impact. 

@ghdprentice - what a beautiful system you have - and a wonderful room to listen in - its certainly something to aim for!

I have been in a dilemma with the living situation - the living room is 25*60*8ft, and I have the Kef R11's there in a home theatre setup, but i do most of my listening late night in my office, so i'm trying to figure out if i can get the next level speakers to work there and get my use out of them, or be forced to the living room where i might not get the same amount of use. I'll figure it out. 

Makes perfect sense that if i decide to the 15-20k level on speakers i'll need to replace the other components overtime - as and when budget permits. But in the shorter  term i can get the speakers and i think my components are "good enough" to get a lot out of whatever speakers i get next even if its not the max. 

I'm leaning Sonus Faber though, because they have the musical mid range and more of the Dynaudios, and they may have more detail - They have better WAF too, so if i move them to the living room at some point, that might actually be a positive from my better half, and finally - I feel like the Wilson's need a really great room to work and would be very hard to get the most out of in my small office. 

Lol, #firstworldproblems!

Thanks - much food for thought

Thanks all! 

@mijostyn & @paradisecom - I think its a great point about the dealer - not sure they would do an in home setup/trial on the Sonus Fabers as they are used/demo, but worth asking for sure. The Wilsons would have to be a purchase and hope through audiogon as i'm not quite ready to pay full retail & get the in home trial.. maybe - we will see - bonus season is coming...

@soix I do have the i2s - its the reason i got the iris - i have a nice Tubulus concentus cable, and i definitely noticed the difference right away. my system is very quiet. 

I have a single Kef KC62 and it's nice and doesn't overpower - but again, i'm not cranking out real high listening levels normally, so i haven't felt the need to manage bass and do treatments... but if i do get the volume up a bit, the treble on the dynaudios gets shrill and the bass gets sloppy for sure - so running into the issues. 

Funny about the JC5 - it sounds good, but tighter - I was really wanting to try out the Pass labs sound and ended up deciding to build the Aleph 60 monoblocks myself for fun, and also i wasn't ready to buy an amp (XA60) for what i'm planning on spending on speakers. If you are interested - check out DIY Audio, and i can give you the name of the guy who sold me the circuit boards and mosfets on etsy - awesome guy Randy who really held my hand - great learning experience, and i got to taste the Pass sound - more holographic and smoother for sure - a little softer, but sounds really nice for what I listen to. I also built the simpler Amp Camp Amp which is even more holographic (2nd order stuff) but its too low power for my Dynaudios and Kefs for sure. Anyway... thanks for the suggestions....

But really i do love my system as is - I've just been wandering through roon  this afternoon, and it really is a good system - it sounds great for my listening room and levels/late night listening and I think that is the answer... if i'm going for that next level its going to have to be in the living room where i'm not fighting the room so much - i can replace the Kef R11's with Sonus Faber / Wilsons.

Interesting you mention the Joseph Audio pulsars - the dealer has some JA RM33SI's used .. but not likely that real next step up but might be fun.

So many possibilities.. i kinda hate the upgraditis but its also the fun part right lol

Thanks everyone for the thoughtful responses.. I'll try to cover everything i've read..and my thoughts

So lets go

1. I think i'm leaving a lot of performance untapped with my current system unless i try some room treatment. Its a pretty small investment compared to new speakers, and i think i owe it to my dynaudios to get some bass traps in and some panels on front wall and behind listening position. @ghdprentice 

2. I think floor standers are going to probably be too much for my small room - even modest one's like the olympica nova ii's - and i'd just end up wondering if the small room was holding them back and keep wanting to move them to the living room to let them breathe 

3. @jeffseight I've looked at the electa amator iii's and thought that they might not be all that big an improvement over my heritage specials - more a different character. The amator maxima was another option.. I can listen to those locally, and these might work in my small room being a 2 way. The Guarneri looks amazing, but i'm not likely to get one used.. and if i was dropping 20k i'd want floorstanding end game speakers... But they sure are beautiful!

4. @pennfootball71 The Kayas look really interesting, but if i ever wanted to move them out to the living room, the WAF won't cut it. Nice recommendation - i'm ure they are amazing.

5. ​​​@elliottbnewcombjr Good tips - and one's i can try easily myself. I already have good spacing from wall, and do toe in to my listening chair (which i have to move from the wall to the listening spot due to space limitations ( dual role office/listening room). I could add a second sub, but won't until i've done the room treatments as there is plenty of bass now.

6. ​​​@ronboco The Rockport Atria's are a new one on me - and i'm just concerned about not being able to listen to them anywhere - i wouldn't buy used without being able to listen to at least something in the same family. Same on the vandersteens...

7. @tomstruck The vandersteens look really interesting, and used are right in the ballpark. again, i've read good things about them, but would really prefer to listen to them, however at the 6-7k used i might be tempted to roll the dice

So thanks again for all the good thoughts and recommendations. 

Wrapping up..

Going to work on my current room with treatments and get the best out of  my current system, and in the meantime I will also go back to the local dealer and listen to the SF's and some Wilsons and see which flavor i prefer really... but these are likely living room speakers. I can likely audition some in home, but that would likely commit me to that dealer (Wilson, SF and Paradigm). As for the other recommendations - i'm reluctant to pull the trigger without being able to listen first - i guess that will always limit me, but I will try and find somewhere local (nor cal) to listen to the vandersteens, rockports etc.

Thanks again gonners - happy listening!

East Bay (NorCal)

So thanks again for all the help - what a great community!

I have been leaning Sonus Faber for a long time now, and thanks @skchun for pointing me at the Guarneri Evolutions on TMR - i had a think, and for that price point, I decided to pull the trigger.

Beautiful speakers, and I love that SF sound. They are well reviewed, and should be a next step up in quality... or at the very least a different sonic character to the Dynaudios that i know that i love. They also apparently sound good at low listening levels which is important to me as i do most listening late night. Finally, if they don't work out, they will have definite resale/trade in value, or could sell the HS (but i love them and won't sell unless i have a very good reason) 

They should work in my small room better than a floor stander (i'm just not convinced I can ever make that work in my room really well). I have an old pair of B&W CM10 S2's that i had in there and had trouble with bass - I certainly preferred the HS + Sub as i could keep the bass levels down at night, though the HS are a better speaker all around so not really fair.

These will also benefit from the treatment i'm going to do (gik acoustic or auralex). Again I don't really have a "boomy" room with the carpet, curtains and closet in the office room, so i'll start with some diffusers on side wall and behind listening position and go from there.

I'll be able to directly compare them to my Heritage Specials and see which i prefer in the room. I also think that I will have the option to move them to the living room if that's where they end up sounding best, but I won't be in a hurry to do that - they will get way more use in my office/listening room.

I'm pretty sure that the next purchase would be a good tube amp with more grunt and quality than my Wilsenton R8 (nice as that is for the price)... So i'll throw that bone out there to the group...

I'm also pretty sure i'll add a second sub for the stereo pair at some point. 

Thanks again for the support and advice - very much appreciated!

Happy Listening!

So I thought i would give a short update to all the kind advisors in the thread after I went ahead and bought the SF Guarneri Evolutions which arrived late last week

First impressions - what a beautiful pair of speakers in person - more like cabinetry or something you'd find on a yacht with the wood planks, polished veneer and nickel plates. Certainly a very different look than my retro Heritage Specials, and one that i am extremely happy with. Funnily enough I asked my wife about them thinking that the WAF would be very high - she told me that none of them look right for the living room - she wants hidden/wall mounted, but that i could have whatever i wanted (she's a keeper). At the end of the day i'll get so much more use in my office / listening room than the living room anyway.

I'm still getting the positioning right, and a/b testing between the Parasound JC5 and the Aleph 60 monos. I did try my wilsenton r8 with stock kt88s but didn't feel it moved me at all, so i did order some psvane el34s and 6sn7s to see if rolling might put me on a better track.

The JC 5 is very nice, is clean, slightly warm, slightly tighter/faster bass and dynamics vs the alephs, and a more forward presentation with quite a bit less soundstage than the Alephs

As for the Alephs, this is definitely my preference - i think its a really nice pairing, the soundstage is set back and deeper and wider, there is plenty of bass and good dynamics (but not quite at the jc5 level). And it has a sweet top end and mid range bloom with that second order harmonic distortion that really compliments the Evo's character. The detail is there but not in your face like the Heritage specials are with their Esotar 3 tweeter (both silk dome, dynaudio i believe)

So i'm very happy - however there is one issue, the left voice/mid woofer has some slight distortion at certain low frequencies - a soft flapping sound or vibration/hub which is telling me the driver is damaged slightly - maybe the spider or voice coil. I really only noticed it after about 30 minutes and confirmed with my test tracks cd.

I've been able to work with my local SF dealer to source a replacement driver (the last one apparently) and will be able get it fixed relatively little money. I was also able to purchase a driver myself through ebay on friday, which arrived today and seems to be the correct part and undamaged, and was going to fix it myself (remember id built the Alephs DIY), but then the dealer got back to me. But at least i have that as a back up. Shame that this happened, especially as the seller (The Music Room) had certified the speaker as fully working, so i'll give them the benefit of the doubt and chalk it up to old used speakers and about a week of shipping via freight. The speakers are still under their 14 day return and 45 day warranty, and i will reach out to TMR and see if they will cover the repair, but if not, i'd rather do this locally than ship this all back to ohio by freight.

But despite this issue I think this speaks to how truly good they sound - that i was not going to part with them even after just a few days.

So did i achieve my goal? Yes i think i did. Are the Evo's night and day better than the HS? No, and i won't be selling them either - they are just a pure, clean, great sounding (and now i know a very neutral sounding speaker). In my untreated room, i think the HS treble might be a bit too hot, but i'll be very happy to keep them and switch them in for a change once in a while. They may even replace the Kefs in the living room. And the bass is fantastic - certainly  better than the HS which is no slouch (and has a little tighter bass than the Evos), but I'll be using a sub (and maybe another) to fill in that very bottom end. But the bass is very very good on their own. And with the Alephs, i get a much more holographic soundstage than the JC5 (at least in my  room) - i think the soundstage width is about the same, though id give the HS the edge, and the depth goes to the Evos. 

So overall, i'm super happy - there is just a wonderful musical quality that comes out of them along with such a pure mid range for instruments and vocals that really is a slice of heaven. And yes, it really answered the question i had about the next level/step up. I now know that it is there, but it will cost me a pretty penny to get it - and very likely i won't bother until i have a bigger room and can explore floorstanders - and maybe try the Wilsons after all. 

Anyway, I'm very happy with my purchase, and thanks again for all the good advice. I'll keep you posted with updates on repair and sound after break in, and the effect of room treatment, oh yeah and the new tubes when they arrive, and maybe that new tube amp i'm looking at lol.

Happy Listening!